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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Voadam" data-source="post: 9381369" data-attributes="member: 2209">1e initiative for the basics you look to the 1e PH page 104 and the 1e DMG page 62:PH page 104:INITIATIVEThe initiative factor affects who can do what and when during the course of anencounter of any sort. Surprise, already covered heretofore, obviates the needfor initiative checks, as the surprising party has complete freedom of action fora time. However, surprise eventually wanes, and then, just as in othercircumstances, the relative weight of action must be determined. Initiative allowsone group, the party or the monster(s), to begin some course of action prior tothe other group.Actions affected by initiative are many and include slamming a door, fleeing,moving to grapple or melee, a call for a truce or surrender, firing wands,discharging missiles, beginning a spell, and so on.The initiative check is typically made with 2 six-sided dice, 1d6 for the party,and another of a different size or color for the creatures encountered. Thischeck is made each round of play where first action is a factor. Because around is a full minute long, dexterity seldom is a factor in the determination ofwhich side acts first. However, if one group is slowed or hasted, or one or moremembers of the group are, the initiative will always go to the non-slowed orhasted side. In most other cases, the group with the higher die score will alwaysact first. For effects of initiative in fighting, see COMBAT hereafter.PH page 105 adds:First Strike:The 1 minute melee round assumes much activity — rushes, retreats, feints,parries, checks, and so on. Once during this period each combatant has theopportunity to get a real blow in. Usually this is indicated by initiative, butsometimes other circumstances will prevail. High level fighters get multiple blowsper round, so they will usually strike first and last in a round. Slowed creaturesalways strike last. Hasted/speeded creatures strike first. A solid formation ofcreatures with long weapons will strike opponents with shorter weapons first, arushing opponent will be struck first by a pole arm/spear set in its path. YourDM will adjudicate such matters with common sense. When important singlecombats occur, then dexterities and weapons factors will be used to determinethe order and number of strikes in a round.1e DMG page 62:Initiative:Surprise gives initiative to the non- or less-surprised party. It is otherwisedetermined when an encounter occurs and at the start of each combat round. Itindicates which of the two parties will act/react. Again, a d6 is rolled, and thescores for the two parties are compared. (It is recommended that such initiativerolls be made openly unless there is some reason to hide that of theencountered monster party — such as special bonuses which would beunknown to the player characters involved.) The higher of the two rolls is said topossess the initiative for that melee round. (While it is not accurate to roll onedie for all individuals comprising each party, it is a convenient and necessaryexpedient. Separate rolls could be made for each member of two small groups,for instance, but what happens to this simple, brief determination if one partyconsists of 9 characters and 6 henchmen and the other of 7 giants and 19 direwolves, let us say?) Possession of initiative allows the individuals to take actionor reaction as desired according to the foregoing list of alternatives, and asdetailed hereafter. The dexterity or speed of individuals or weapons is notconsidered in the 1 minute round except as hereafter noted.Initiative For Creatures With Multiple Attack Routines: When one ormore creatures involved in combat are permitted to use their attack routinestwice or more often during the round, then the following initiative determinantsare employed. When the attack routine may be used twice, then allow theside with this advantage to attack FIRST and LAST with those members of itsgroup who have this advantage. If it is possessed by both parties, the initiativeroll determines which group strikes FIRST and THIRD, which group strikesSECOND and LAST. If one or both groups have members allowed only oneattack routine, it will always fall in the middle of the other attacks, the orderdetermined by dicing for initiative, when necessary. If one party has theability to employ its attack routines thrice, then the other party dices forinitiative to see if it, or the multi-routine group, strikes first in the mid-point ofthe round. Extrapolate for routines which occur four or more times in a roundby following the method above. Note that a routine is the attack or attacksusual to the creature concerned, i.e. a weapon (or weapons) for a character,a claw/claw/bite routine for a bear (with incidental damage assessed as itoccurs — the hug, for example). A 12th level fighter is allowed attack routinestwice in every odd numbered melee round, for example, and this moves up tothree per round if a haste spell is cast upon the fighter. Damage fromsuccessful attacks is assessed when the “to hit” score is made and damagedetermined, the creature so taking damage having to survive it in order tofollow its attack routine.Ties: It will often occur that initiative determination results in a tie. This merelyindicates that each party has equal chances for acting and that attacks occursimultaneously. In cases of equal initiative score, damage accrues to bothgroups regardless of what is inflicted.Also page 65 of the DMG has a note on spellcasting in meleeSPELL CASTING DURING MELEEThese functions are fully detailed in PLAYERS HANDBOOK. Theircommencement is dictated by initiative determination as with other attack forms,but their culmination is subject to the stated casting time. Both commencementand/or completion can occur simultaneously with missile discharge, magicaldevice attacks, and/or turning undead. Being struck by something duringcasting will spoil the spell.2. Attacks directed at spell casters will come on that segment of the roundshown on the opponent’s or on their own side’s initiative die, whichever isapplicable. (If the spell caster’s side won the initiative with a roll of 5, theattack must come then, not on the opponent’s losing roll of 4 or less.) Thus,all such attacks will occur on the 1st-6th segments of the round.Then there are a couple more DMG complications explained on page 66-67:Melee At End of Charge: Initiative is NOT checked at the end of chargemovement. The opponent with the longer weapon/reach attacks first. Chargingcreatures gain +2 on their “to hit” dice if they survive any non-charging orcharging opponent attacks which occur first. Weapon length and first strike aredetailed under Strike Blows.Only one charge move can be made each turn; thus an interval of 9 roundsmust take place before a second charge movement can be made.Set Weapons Against Possible Opponent Charge:Setting weapons is simply a matter of bracing such piercing weapons as spears,spiked pole arms, forks, glaives, etc. so as to have the butt of the shaft bracedagainst an unyielding surface. The effect of such a weapon upon a charging (orleaping, pouncing, falling, or otherwise onrushing) opponent is to cause suchopponent to impale itself and take double normal damage if a hit is so scored.Example: Character A sets her spear with its butt firmly braced upon the floorjust as a giant toad hops at her (attacking); if the spear impales the creature, itwill score double indicated damage (d8 × 2). Note that in this case initiative isautomatically given to the set spear as it will obviously take effect prior to anyattack routine of the toad, and that two dice are not rolled, but the result of thed8 roll is multiplied by 2.Strike Blows:As previously stated, initiative is the key factor as to which side strikes blowsfirst each melee round. This is modified by creatures with multiple attackroutines, whether by natural or magical ability (such as haste). It is alsomodified by weapon length when one opponent is charging (or otherwiseclosing precipitously) into melee contact.Simultaneous Initiative: When opponents in melee have tied for initiative,blows (attack routines included) occur simultaneously, except when bothopponents are using weapons. Each weapon has a speed factor, and in thecase of otherwise simultaneous blows, the opponent with the weapon which hasthe lower speed factor will strike first. Thus, a blow from a fist occurs before ablow with a dagger (1 to 2), a dagger before a short sword (2 to 3), a shortsword prior to a hammer (3 to 4), and so on.Weapon Speed Factor: This number is indicative of the wieldiness of anyparticular weapon, how long it takes to ready the weapon against anopponent, or how long it takes to recover and move it in its attack mode. Apike, for example, is a 13, as it must be lowered, grasped, and then held/thrustfirmly. Such a weapon is not usable in dungeon settings, or anywhere elsewithout masses of other pikes to support it. In the latter case, an opponentsurviving the first attack from the bearer of the pike will likely be able to strikeseveral times before recovery of the pike for a second thrust. This is furtherdetailed below. A two-handed sword, with a 10 speed factor, likewise requiresa lengthy readying time and recovery period after its attack due to its size andweight.When weapon speed factor is the determinant of which opponent strikes firstin a melee round, there is a chance that one opponent will be entitled tomultiple attacks. Compare the score of the lower-factored weapon with that ofthe higher. If the difference is at least twice the factor of the lower, or 5 ormore factors in any case, the opponent with the lower factored weapon isentitled to 2 attacks before the opponent with the higher weapon factor isentitled to any attack whatsoever. If the difference is 10 or greater, theopponent with the lower-factored weapon is entitled to 2 attacks before theopponent is allowed to attack, and 1 further attack at the same time theopponent with the higher-speed-factored weapon finally is allowed to attack.Note that such speed factor considerations are not applicable when eitherclosing or charging to melee, but after an initial round of combat, or in caseswhere closing/charging was not necessary, the speed factor considerationsare applicable.Other Weapon Factor Determinants: The speed factor of a weaponalso determines when the weapon strikes during the course of the round withrespect to opponents who are engaged in activity other than striking blows.Thus, suppose side A, which has achieved initiative (action) for the round, hasa magic-user engaged in casting a spell. Compare the speed factor of theweapon with the number of segments which the spell will require to cast todetermine if the spell or the weapon will be cast/strike first, subtracting thelosing die roll on the initiative die roll from the weapon factor and treatingnegative results as positive. Example: A sword with a factor of 5 (broad orlong) is being used by an opponent of a magic-user attempting to cast afireball spell (3 segment casting time). If the sword-wielding attacker wasrepresented by a losing initiative die roll of 1, the spell will be cast prior tothe sword’s blow. A 2 will indicate that the spell and the blow are completedsimultaneously. A 3-5 will indicate that the blow has a chance of striking (if asuccessful “to hit” roll is made) before the spell is cast, arriving either as thespell is begun or during the first segment of its casting. Suppose instead thata dagger were being employed. It has a speed factor of only 2, so it willstrike prior to spell completion if the initiative roll which lost was 1-4 (theadjusted segment indicator being 1, 0, 1, 2 respectively) and simultaneouslyif the die score was a 5. If the weapon being employed was a two-handedsword (or any other weapon with a speed factor of 10, or 9 for that matter)there would be no chance for the reacting side to strike the spell caster priorto completion of the fireball. Note that even though a spell takes but 1segment to complete, this is 6 seconds, and during that period a reactingattacker might be able to attack the magic-user or other spell caster prior toactual completion of the spell! If combat is simultaneous, there is nomodification of the weapon speed factor.There are also a few examples of combat with initiative.1e PH page 105:Example of Combat:A party of 5 characters — a magic-user, a cleric, a thief, a human fighter,and a dwarf fighter surprise an illusionist with 20 orcs. The opponents are 30’distant, and the magic-user immediately begins casting a sleep spell. Thecleric also prepares to cast a spell, silence, 15’ radius. Meanwhile, the thiefdarts to the rear of the party to attempt to hide in the shadows and attackfrom behind when opportunity presents itself; the human fighter nocks anarrow and shoots it at the illusionist; and the dwarf hurls an axe. The surprisesegment is over, and initiative is determined. The illusionist/orcs win initiative,and while the former begins a spell of his own, the latter rush to attack,hurling spears as they come. A spear hits the magic-user, so the sleep spell isspoiled. The orcs are attacked by the fighters, the cleric casts his spell uponthe illusionist, and the magical silence both spoils his prismatic spray spell andenhances the chances for the thief’s attack, for he is successfully slinking andsliding around in the shadows. Thus, after surprise and 1 melee round, theparty has inflicted 2 hits upon the illusionist, spoiled his spell attack, andfelled one orc and wounded another. They have taken 3 spear hits and hadone of their spell attacks ruined.Initiative is now checked for the second round. The illusionist/orcs again wininitiative and attack first, 5 orcs going after each fighter to grapple, 6 rushingthe magic-user, and 3 heading for the cleric. The fighters are pulled down, as isthe magic-user, but the cleric avoids their grasp. The illusionist begins castinganother spell, one which requires no verbal component; he does not hear thethief behind him. It is now the party’s turn in the round. The cleric smites 1 ofthe onrushing orcs and kills it, and the thief stabs the illusionist from behind withhis sword, killing him; the fighters and magic-user are held fast by orcs, so theycan do nothing. Round 2 is over.The initiative roll in the third round goes to the party. The cleric kills anotherorc, while the thief rushes at the orcs holding the nearest fighter. It is now theorcs’ turn, and as their leader is dead and they still face 2 powerful opponents,they will check morale. It is probable that they will kill the pinned characterswith dagger thrusts if their morale does not break, or that they will release thepinned characters and run away if their morale is bad.DMG page 71-72:Example of Melee:Party A (player characters) is composed of Aggro the Axe, a 4th level fighter;Abner, a 5th level magic-user; Arkayn, a 4th level cleric; and Arlanni, a 2ndlevel thief. They are hastening down a dungeon corridor in order to avoid anencounter with a large group of goblins, whose territory they are now leaving.It is a ten-foot wide corridor and they are moving with the cleric, fighter, andthief in a line in front, followed closely by the magic-user. Suddenly they rounda bend and confront party B, who are earnestly engaged in squabbling oversome treasure. Party B is composed of Gutboy Barrelhouse, a 6th level dwarffighter; Balto, a 1st level monk; Blastum, a 4th level magic-user; and Barjin, a4th/5th level half-elf fighter/magic-user.The first thing the DM must do is determine if either party is surprised. He rolls ad6 for party B (where the players can see it, since there are no secret modifiers)and a 2 comes up. The leader for the players rolls and gets a 4 for party A.Party B is surprised (since they rolled a 2), and will be inactive for 2 segments.Next the DM checks distance, and finds that the parties are only 10’ apart —sufficiently near to close and strike.Party A immediately recognizes party B as a group of “evil marauders” theywere warned against and moves to attack. First, Arlanni the thief, who had hersling ready (as the player had stated previous to the encounter), fires a shot atBlastum, who is obviously a magic-user. A sling bullet gains +3 “to hit” vs. noarmor. Arlanni would usually need an 11 to hit, but now needs only an 8. Sherolls a 5, and misses.Aggro the fighter rushes forward to attack the nearest opponent, who happensto be Balto, the monk. Balto is wearing no armor, so Aggro needs a base 8 tohit Balto. However, Aggro is using a +1 hand axe, and furthermore an axe is+1 to hit vs. no armor, so Aggro’s adjusted amount needed to hit is only 6 (or,alternately, the cumulative +2 could be added to whatever he rolls to improvehis chances of rolling an 8 or better). Aggro rolls a 14 and hits Balto, but only1 point of damage is rolled, plus a 1 point bonus from the magic axe (2 pointstotal), and Balto can take 4.Meanwhile, Abner and Arkayn have been preparing short (first level) spells. Thecleric shouts a command of “surrender!” at Gutboy Barrelhouse, but Gutboy is6th level and thus gets a saving throw. Furthermore, he is a dwarf with aconstitution of 16, and thus saves at +4. He therefore needs a 10 or better tosave (instead of a 14). He rolls a 17 and saves easily. Unfortunately, he isalmost simultaneously hit by two magic missiles from Abner, the magic-user.Against these there is no save, and Gutboy suffers 6 points of damage (from apossible 4-10).As party B is surprised for 2 segments, party A has a chance to hit in eachsegment as if they were full rounds (this does not apply to spell use, of course).In the second segment, Arlanni chooses to set down her crossbow andunsheathe her sword. Aggro would normally get another chance to hit Balto,who would be inactive for another segment, but Balto’s dexterity allows him a+1 reaction adjustment, which means that he personally will be surprised forone less segment than the rest of his party. So this segment he is up and on hisguard, and Aggro does not get another hit attempt this round. Arkayn the clericreadies his mace as Abner steps back and begins to unroll a scroll for use nextround.Now initiative dice are rolled, and party A’s score is lower, so party B gets toreact to the assault. Balto attacks Aggro (who is in AC 2) with his staff. Heneeds a base 18 to hit, and the –7 armor class adjustment for sword vs. platemail and shield makes this a 20. He (the DM) rolls a 19 — almost, but notquite! Gutboy Barrelhouse and Barjin the fighter/magic-user both attackArkayn. That cleric’s AC is only 5. Gutboy has +1 to hit due to strength, and hishammer’s armor class adjustment vs. scale mail and shield is +1, so he needs a9 or better to hit (11 before bonuses). He rolls a 12 and hits for 5 points ofdamage (including 1 point of bonus damage from strength). Barjin, with asword, needs a 13 or better to hit Arkayn. He rolls a 13 exactly, and hits for 6more points of damage. Arkayn is starting to have second thoughts about thiswhole affair.Meanwhile, Blastum has been preparing a shocking grasp spell, and now hesteps forward and touches (rolls a successful “to hit” die score) Arlanni the thief,delivering 10 points of damage (1-8 + 4). There is no saving throw: Arlanni hasonly 8 hit points, and dies.On the left, Aggro again attacks Balto with his axe. He rolls a 12 and hits himfor 5 points. Balto only had two points left, so he is dead.Arkayn chooses to attempt to hit Gutboy Barrelhouse. The dwarf is clad in splintmail, but he is carrying a +2 shield, so his effective armor class is 1 (though hisAC type is 3). Arkayn needs a base 17 to hit AC 1, but using a mace vs. ACtype 3 gives him a +1 armor class adjustment, so he really only needs a 16 orbetter. He rolls a 7 and misses.During this time Abner has been reading a web spell from the scroll, and now ittakes effect. The web stretches from wall to wall and entangles Gutboy, Barjin,Blastum (who was beginning spell preparations, though now they’re ruined andthe spell is lost), and the unfortunate Arkayn, who was too near not to getcaught. All attempt saving throws, but only Gutboy Barrelhouse makes his, andthus is only partially entangled. However, even his 17 strength will not enablehim to escape the web in time to avoid being subsequently subdued or killed byAggro. The melee is effectively over: Arkayn can be helped out of the web byhis friends, while Barjin and Blastum are basically helpless to avoid whateverthe player characters have in mind concerning them.As you can see, a large number of things can happen in each round ofmelee, yet this whole fight took only two minutes of game time. Some meleeswill last far longer. It may seem at first as if there is a tremendous number ofconfusing variables that modify the action, but you’ll be surprised at howquickly you’ll be able to conduct a complicated melee and routinely coverevery point. An experienced DM can do it with only an occasional referenceto the tables (though it is not recommended that you try this — wait until itcomes naturally). The main thing to remember is to do everything in anorderly, step-by-step fashion. Deal with your players’ actions and reactionsone by one instead of all at once, or you will never be able to keep track ofwhat round it is, and who’s doing what when.</blockquote>

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