Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Geron Raveneye" data-source="post: 201313" data-attributes="member: 2268">Heh...can´t help it......this thread has a strange appeal I can´t resist...I simply had to check out something in referance to your line of argumentation, ConcreteBuddha, namely that the part in the DMG referring to the use of adamantine doesn´t specify which part of the weapon has to be made from it, but only refers to "the weapon" as a whole.If you take the time to read through the weapon descriptions in the PHB in the Equipment section, you´ll surely notice that for roughly 90% of the weapons listed there no description is given for what part of a weapon is made from what material. They are given as "standard" weapons, clearly assuming that the "default material" for each weapon is used to make it. So a "weapon", according to the general outlook of the rulebooks, is a conglomerate of "default" material used by a proficient person to form a weapon. Not even the arrow gets a description as a "steel arrowhead mounted on a wooden shaft" or anything...  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />  Coming back to the adamantine weapon problem, it looks very much as if they simply assume a "default weapon" as described above, only made with adamantine replacing the specific damaging component in every weapon, as the specific weapon damage is the crucial part that determines how great the enhancement bonus is the weapon will get from the adamantine replacement.If you want to go into more detail, of course, you could start dissecting the weapons in question...Example: - A longsword consists nearly in it´s entirety of steel...the wood/leather covering around the handle is only there to ease the grip. Replace all the steel in a longsword with adamantine, and you have a sword which is 90% adamantine and the rest is wood/leather/gems- An axe (usually) consists of an axe head made from steel mounted on a wooden shaft. The specific damage of the axe is derived by it´s head, though, the shaft without the head would cause only club damage, as it is a cut wooden shaft (=club). So you replace the component that causes the axe damage (it´s head) with adamantine, as it´s the damage of that weapon that determines how great the enhancement bonus will be. - A dagger is largely made from steel, it follows the same reasoning as the longswordNow to get back at the more specific problem with the adamantine arrow. Note again that there´s no description as to how a bow and arrow is to be used in the Equipment section? In the Combat section, they don´t have a special text on it, either. The authors of the book assume we all know how to use bow and arrow. The damage descriptor in Table 7-4 lists only the most common damage for any weapon, i.e. the damage a weapon causes when it is used properly, because for any other situation, special rules are given. For any bow, this means it deals 1dX points of damage if used properly, which is by firing an arrow.The problem with an arrow is that it´s damage, if it´s used properly is dependant on the propelling force behind it, which is derived from the bowstring of the bow it was fired from. As there is only one kind of arrow in that list, but two bows, with one bow having a lighter pull than the other, the damage an arrow causes is different with the bow used. That´s why the damage is listed with the separate bows, instead of cramming 4 entries into the arrow line. You cause damage with the arrow, the force to cause it comes from the respective bow.Furthermore, the arrow comes with an asterisk, notifying the reader to read the description of the weapon for special rules. That description tells us that an arrow "used as a melee weapon is Tiny and deals 1d4 points of damage (x2 crit)". Essentially that´s the damage done by a dagger. It´s the smallest amount of lethal damage done by a weapon in D&D, if you disregard a thrown shuriken. If you take a look at an arrowhead, you´ll realize that the damage it can do if used as melee weapon very well can be akin to that of a dagger.Taking all that together, you can very well create adamantine arrows. You use adamantine in the creation process, apply the "default method" of creating an arrow, by mounting a metal head on a wooden shaft, and then you have what you want. The point being that this "+2 natural enhancement bonus" gained through this isn´t that great in detail. It doesn´t negate any damage reduction, it doesn´t carry any other magical properties, it´s just the advantage gained by using a material that is of a better quality, i-e. you can make it sharper, it´s point pointier, causing a greater chance of deeper penetration into any target, resulting in a slightly higher chance to cause a little more normal damage.Following your argumentation, CB, that an arrow with only it´s head made from adamantine shouldn´t gain the bonus because the amount of adamantine is not enough, it could be reasoned that a normal arrow shouldn´t cause it´s listed damage unles it´s made completely from steel. An increase in penetration power by only replacing the head of an arrow has been seen in the antique, when the bronze arrowheads were replaced with first iron heads and then steel heads. Each time only the head material was replaced with a material of higher quality.So, going from what I´ve read in the core rules, creating an adamantine arrow would entail the following steps, costs and results:- Create a "default arrow", with adamantine replacing the steel- It´ll cost the standard 5 cp + additional 3000 gp to create an arrow that gets a +1 enhancement bonus (even when fired from a longbow). This results from less adamantine used than needed to confer the +2 bonus for a 1d8 weapon.- It´ll cost 5 cp + an additional 9000 gp to create an arrow that gets a +1 enhancement bonus when used as melee weapon or when fired from any shortbow, and a +2 enhancement bonus when fired from any longbow.This is just from the "official rules". To alleviate this a little, I´d allow the rules from magic weapon creation to be used, meaning the price raise is used for not one arrow but a bundle of 50. Furthermore, I´d allow any archer to go and search for his arrows, even when a result of 50% or lower would indicate it to be lost/destroyed. I´d even allow them to carve their arrowheads out of their dead opponents, if they take the time for it, as the arrowhead is the least likely part of any arrow to be destroyed by a hit on anything. Of course, all this would be "house rules", but those are always an option, neh?  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />  Now excuse me for a moment...I´ll go nurse my fingertips back to life, okay?  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />  Edit: Damn typos..bet I still haven´t got all of them little buggers  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />Edit 2: And I sincerely hope nobody is going to demand chapter and verse from me where in the books it says "When no specific details are given, use common sense". That kind of assumption is made even by the military forces, at least those I served with.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></blockquote>

Verification