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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Anax" data-source="post: 4279466" data-attributes="member: 19868">And yet, if we were to take a mix-up of 4E's and d20M's class-systems as a base, he is still a smart hero.  Anybody in that situation, sure, is going to want to be tougher, faster, etc.  The 4E model is that they just do, rather than requiring everybody in the party take a couple of levels of tough to boost their survival rate.Going back to the D&D scenario: It's true that this rather breaks the verisimilitude of the situation--but that's the DM's fault for deciding that it's purely a strength check, honestly.  Make it a skill challenge instead, and let the players decide which skill (or ability, or power) they are going to apply.  Now the wizard's player has no need to break character by using a strength check.If for some reason I was forced into having an ability check used like this as a DM (and I'm not sure that would happen), I would fluff up the strength check to make it clear that it was not raw strength on the wizard's part.  If I was forced to do it as a player, I would try to convince the DM to let me use something else instead, and if he would not, I would fluff it up.From earlier in the thread:There's no real difference.  Consider an ability check to be an untrained skill check on a skill that's not in the book.  Nobody trains or specializes in "opening portcullises skill".  But that doesn't mean that there's no skill involved.  Likewise for arm-wrestling.  Sure, this breaks down eventually (weight lifting?) if you push at it.  So don't DO that.Like I said to start: Don't use a single ability-based challenge when a more general challenge will suffice.  Let the wizard choose to use something else to open the door, or let the party choose to have the fighter open the door.  If you don't constrain your characters in weird ways (the weak wizard, and only the weak wizard, must make a strength check to get through this door), the players will choose to do something that makes sense.And a final alternative way to look at this: At 30th level, the door that was a challenge to level 1 PCs should no longer be a challenge.  If it is, then it has a different DC than it used to have, and the wizard should not be able to easily lift it with a strength check anyway.</blockquote>

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