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<blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 6356815" data-attributes="member: 2011">Yes, but you are saying that the Ranger with the skill is just as good at saving as the Wizard with the class.I don't think that a class proficiency feature should be equal or trumped by a skill. JMO.I do see that in 4E, the weak NAD was an issue. But, the math here is bit different.A PC with +1 at level 1 with Wis saves will also be +1 at level 20 (shy of magic items like Rings of Protection or spells).And yes, the DCs are often in the 16 to 18 range at level 20 (higher for legendary creatures).But what this house rule does is say that every PC is nearly as good (or better) at saving versus Wisdom as the classes that are designed to be so.Note: saving throws for many things (except damage) are &quot;save every turn&quot;. This means that there is often time for other PCs to cast spells and assist with the save, or for class abilities to help with the save, or whatever.I just think that class abilities and spells and (heaven forbid on this forum) magic items will make up some of this slack without making each PC as good at the save as other PCs who are supposed to be good at the save.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="KarinsDad, post: 6356815, member: 2011"] Yes, but you are saying that the Ranger with the skill is just as good at saving as the Wizard with the class. I don't think that a class proficiency feature should be equal or trumped by a skill. JMO. I do see that in 4E, the weak NAD was an issue. But, the math here is bit different. A PC with +1 at level 1 with Wis saves will also be +1 at level 20 (shy of magic items like Rings of Protection or spells). And yes, the DCs are often in the 16 to 18 range at level 20 (higher for legendary creatures). But what this house rule does is say that every PC is nearly as good (or better) at saving versus Wisdom as the classes that are designed to be so. Note: saving throws for many things (except damage) are "save every turn". This means that there is often time for other PCs to cast spells and assist with the save, or for class abilities to help with the save, or whatever. I just think that class abilities and spells and (heaven forbid on this forum) magic items will make up some of this slack without making each PC as good at the save as other PCs who are supposed to be good at the save. [/QUOTE]

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