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Message: <blockquote data-quote="johnnype" data-source="post: 4840765" data-attributes="member: 1944">Vanilla settings have to work hard to grab me. Even a setting like Eberron that tries to be different fails IMO because part of it's "shtick" is that it is all inclusive. To me that's a top down approach, one where you start with everything and then start tweaking the specifics (without eliminating anything) to try to personalize it somehow. That doesn't work for me at all. I prefer more of a bottom up approach wherein you start with the limitations (limited cultures, races, classes, magic systems, whatever) and build upon that. It's the limitations and exclusions that make a setting different and original for me. Good example include the Iron Kingdoms and Midnight. You would never dream of including something like Dragonborn in either setting. I like dragonborn just fine but neither has a place in a setting as thematically solid (for lack of a better word) as either of these two settings. In addition I think a large part of the problem with vanilla or kitchen sink settings is that they focus on too large an area. The Forgotten Realms and the Pathfinder settings are good examples of this. Both are made up of numerous countries and span an area much larger than is needed. If you were to take a magnifying glass and say, detail Sembia (part of the FR) you would see a place perfect for numerous adventures without ever having to visit or caring about anywhere else in Faerun. Furthermore, think about all the campaigns you have played in. When it comes down to it most take place in a relatively small area. I'd venture to say that 98% of the rest of the setting goes unread and unused. It's all an amorphous mess that is in the background sapping the personality of the campaign and therefore the setting. D&D, especially in 4E, being developed as a toolbox game where players and GM's are provided with a never ending list of mods to add-on or personalize their game. This is great except for the games wherein the GM decides to allow everything and thus fails to make it their own. You have a warlock dragonborn fighting alongside a tiefling Avenger. SNORE! Bland, bland, bland!Again, limitations and exclusions. That's what brings a setting alive afaic.</blockquote>

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