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<blockquote data-quote="Erragar" data-source="post: 9625945" data-attributes="member: 7049414">The bad thing about the arguments against this is that people forget that eventually AC doesn't matter. Your Nimble Fighter is getting hit more than 50% of the time, and they're going down. The monk is the only front-line class with a d8 hit dice. And yes, I realize the Rogue should be front-line, but they at least have more ranged options. Then there's the Ranger... a normally rear-line combatant with a d10 hit dice? There is no justification for that. There is no way to say that the Ranger deserves that type of HD and the Adept/Monk does not. The reason I've advocated for a d12 for them however is because of things I've seen real life Shaolin do. Bending legitimate spears with their necks, tanking bats to the crotch, etc. They were able to either harden their skin or ignore the pain, and this was in real life. Imagine what the same type of character in a fantasy world would be like. And it's not like these guys gave up any of their agility to do it. One minute they're bending spears with their adam's apple, the next they're doing the fastest wing chung you've ever seen.And, remind me again the design choice of having the in your face punching flurry guy have the same HP as the dude who sold his soul for power and shoots laser beams from his eyes as their main form of attack? d8 it just too small, it's a bad artifact from 3rd edition D&amp;D when WoTC is on record saying they didn't want to add the monk, and made it generally unplayable and no one wants to admit it.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Erragar, post: 9625945, member: 7049414"] The bad thing about the arguments against this is that people forget that eventually AC doesn't matter. Your Nimble Fighter is getting hit more than 50% of the time, and they're going down. The monk is the only front-line class with a d8 hit dice. And yes, I realize the Rogue should be front-line, but they at least have more ranged options. Then there's the Ranger... a normally rear-line combatant with a d10 hit dice? There is no justification for that. There is no way to say that the Ranger deserves that type of HD and the Adept/Monk does not. The reason I've advocated for a d12 for them however is because of things I've seen real life Shaolin do. Bending legitimate spears with their necks, tanking bats to the crotch, etc. They were able to either harden their skin or ignore the pain, and this was in real life. Imagine what the same type of character in a fantasy world would be like. And it's not like these guys gave up any of their agility to do it. One minute they're bending spears with their adam's apple, the next they're doing the fastest wing chung you've ever seen. And, remind me again the design choice of having the in your face punching flurry guy have the same HP as the dude who sold his soul for power and shoots laser beams from his eyes as their main form of attack? d8 it just too small, it's a bad artifact from 3rd edition D&D when WoTC is on record saying they didn't want to add the monk, and made it generally unplayable and no one wants to admit it. [/QUOTE]

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