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Message: <blockquote data-quote="airwalkrr" data-source="post: 6121188" data-attributes="member: 12460">Say the PCs are walking along in a dungeon and there is an illusory wall or illusory floor trap  the PC in the lead is, in classic fashion, jabbing the walls and floor with an eleven-foot pole (because you know ten feet is never sufficient). Well a little ways along the lead PC encounters the illusion, interacts with it using his eleven-foot pole, and succeeds on his saving. He turns back to his fellow PCs am says, "Hey! There's a huge hole in the floor here, but it's masked by an illusion." The pit covers the whole floor for a length of 10 feet, not even a centimeter of an edge to balance across. The lead PC, having cleverly brought along a piece of chalk, outlines where the pit starts. The dwarf charges forward to the edge and sticks his axe into the floor, thereby interacting with the illusion, and being resistant to magic, naturally succeeds on his saving through. "Aye," he concurs, "a huge pit 'cross the whole floor hidden by some wily wizard's spell." The same happens for most of the party as well. The poor, human ranger, however, having little knowledge of such magic, pokes around on the groun, fails his saving throw, and says, "Hmm, I just don't see it." After a bit of discussion, the group decides to jump the pit. The ranger, forced to use the chalk line as his jumping point, still doesn't know quite how far he has to jump. But he gets lucky and rolls a great jump check, far and away more than he would have needed to cross a 10 foot pit. Disaster averted.Later, the lead PC comes across a dead-end. But while poking around with his eleven-foot pole comes across an illusory wall. This time the lead PC fails his saving throw. He turns around to the group and says, "Well, I suppose we'll have to turn around." The rogue steps up and says, "Oh that's just not possible. Let me search for a secret passage." So the rogue looks around, pokes at the wall himself, fails his saving throw, and he, too, says, "He may be right. We'll have to turn around." The gnome illusionist refuses to accept this, and steps forward to examine the wall one last time. Well, thanks to his gnomish familiarity with illusions he makes his saving throw, walks right through, and says to rest, "So, what are you waiting for? Come along now."So how do you deal with these situations?In situation 1, should the ranger be penalized somehow? After all he can't see the illusionary floor and might be jittery about his prospects of crossing an unknown width.And what of situation 2? The lead PC and the rogue just witnessed the gnome walking through what they believe to be a wall. Should they receive a second save, perhaps with a bonus? But perhaps they might find it equally likely that the gnome was just playing a trick on them and casting invisibility as he walked up to the wall. Or would they automatically disbelieve after being provided with nearly incontrovertible evidence of an illusory wall? If not, what if they fail their second saving throw, still insist that there is a wall there, and refuse to walk headlong into a wall that is (they believe) is likely to only result in a bruised nose?</blockquote>

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