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General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
adjusting 5E zombies to be like walkers?
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<blockquote data-quote="Fanaelialae" data-source="post: 7077808" data-attributes="member: 53980"><p>I watch TWD as well, and from what I've gathered unconsciousness doesn't occur as a direct result of being bitten, but is rather due to blood loss from the bite. The guy with a drinking problem whose leg got eaten was fine for quite a while after getting bitten. He even had time to gloat at his captors. Admittedly, even characters who aren't gushing blood will succumb to unconsciousness eventually due to the fever, but that seems to take a little while to set in. There have been a few characters on the show who lasted (seemingly) quite some time after being bitten.</p><p></p><p>It's also unclear as to how much time characters have to amputate someone who's bitten. They're always in a rush to do it, because the assumption seems to be 'the sooner the better', but as far a I can recall no one has waited a while and then amputated a bite. There's a chance it might work, since there's nothing in the canon as far as I'm aware that it doesn't work. If they had strong antibiotics, that might also be enough to knock out the infection caused by the bite and thereby save the bitten victim.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That's not what I was referring to. I meant that the infected in that game where fast, hyper-aggressive, and not undead.</p><p></p><p>The speed of infection nearly ruined that movie for me. Viruses don't work at that speed. It takes time to infiltrate a cell and reprogram it. I know it's just a movie, but would it have killed them to crack open a 3rd grade biology textbook? <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":P" title="Stick out tongue :P" data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":P" /></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I don't think a 10 minute ritual is going to work that well in a zombie game if you want to keep up the pressure. If you have zombies trying to break down the door, taking 10 minutes to heal someone is probably not going to work.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I generally agree with this sentiment, but with the caveat that even a hyper-intelligent being isn't going to be able to maintain the level of paranoia necessary to be 100% alert every day without going completely insane. I've seen DMs who played a high intelligence to mean that this creature is basically impossible to outwit. When I DM an intelligent opponent, I will layer his defenses intelligently, but if the players find a weak spot and exploit it then good on them. Even geniuses can make tactical errors. </p><p></p><p>Richard Feynman wrote in one of his books that he was once punched by a drunk guy in a bathroom (IIRC Feynman punched the guy back and asked if he'd like to keep trading blows). Extremely smart man, but not impossible to surprise. Intelligence =/= magical divination powers. </p><p></p><p>Intelligence only allows you to prepare for such things as you might reasonably and logically expect to take place, and even then your preparations will only be as extreme as your level of paranoia. An intelligent but lazy dragon might realize that eventually adventurers will come looking for it... but that day probably won't be today so why not take a nap instead? There are more facets to a person, be they human, dragon, or lich, than their intellect.</p><p></p><p>If that bugbear gets wind that the PCs are coming, then he should absolutely set up an ambush. On the other hand, if the PCs managed to infiltrate the dungeon without making much noise or letting anyone get away, then it's a stretch to say that the bugbear is waiting in ambush (unless he happens to be hunting rats or something). He might be skinning the rats he caught, cooking his rat stew, gambling with some hobgoblins, or grabbing some shut eye. He certainly isn't standing in a darkened corner 24/7 waiting for the PCs to come along so that he can ambush them.</p><p></p><p>I disagree that you should modify the XP if the players manage to ambush the bugbears rather than the other way around. Admittedly, the difficulty of the encounter is different, but in my opinion the XP should be the same. If the players are clever (or even just lucky) enough to avoid being ambushed, they should not be penalized XP. If, on the other hand, the DM never has the bugbears ambush even when they have the perfect circumstances for it, the DM ought to simply use a more straight-forward monster and reskin that as a bugbear. However, Surprise Attack isn't a big enough factor in the Bugbear's CR IMO to justify reducing it from a CR 1 to a CR 1/2. If you really want to use bugbears and never ambush, I'd say add another goblin or two to the encounter to make up the difference in challenge (and give the players XP for those goblins as normal - the players shouldn't have to pay the price for the DM's laziness).</p><p></p><p>I'm not trying to accuse anyone of badwrongfun, just stating my own POV on the matter.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Fanaelialae, post: 7077808, member: 53980"] I watch TWD as well, and from what I've gathered unconsciousness doesn't occur as a direct result of being bitten, but is rather due to blood loss from the bite. The guy with a drinking problem whose leg got eaten was fine for quite a while after getting bitten. He even had time to gloat at his captors. Admittedly, even characters who aren't gushing blood will succumb to unconsciousness eventually due to the fever, but that seems to take a little while to set in. There have been a few characters on the show who lasted (seemingly) quite some time after being bitten. It's also unclear as to how much time characters have to amputate someone who's bitten. They're always in a rush to do it, because the assumption seems to be 'the sooner the better', but as far a I can recall no one has waited a while and then amputated a bite. There's a chance it might work, since there's nothing in the canon as far as I'm aware that it doesn't work. If they had strong antibiotics, that might also be enough to knock out the infection caused by the bite and thereby save the bitten victim. That's not what I was referring to. I meant that the infected in that game where fast, hyper-aggressive, and not undead. The speed of infection nearly ruined that movie for me. Viruses don't work at that speed. It takes time to infiltrate a cell and reprogram it. I know it's just a movie, but would it have killed them to crack open a 3rd grade biology textbook? :P I don't think a 10 minute ritual is going to work that well in a zombie game if you want to keep up the pressure. If you have zombies trying to break down the door, taking 10 minutes to heal someone is probably not going to work. I generally agree with this sentiment, but with the caveat that even a hyper-intelligent being isn't going to be able to maintain the level of paranoia necessary to be 100% alert every day without going completely insane. I've seen DMs who played a high intelligence to mean that this creature is basically impossible to outwit. When I DM an intelligent opponent, I will layer his defenses intelligently, but if the players find a weak spot and exploit it then good on them. Even geniuses can make tactical errors. Richard Feynman wrote in one of his books that he was once punched by a drunk guy in a bathroom (IIRC Feynman punched the guy back and asked if he'd like to keep trading blows). Extremely smart man, but not impossible to surprise. Intelligence =/= magical divination powers. Intelligence only allows you to prepare for such things as you might reasonably and logically expect to take place, and even then your preparations will only be as extreme as your level of paranoia. An intelligent but lazy dragon might realize that eventually adventurers will come looking for it... but that day probably won't be today so why not take a nap instead? There are more facets to a person, be they human, dragon, or lich, than their intellect. If that bugbear gets wind that the PCs are coming, then he should absolutely set up an ambush. On the other hand, if the PCs managed to infiltrate the dungeon without making much noise or letting anyone get away, then it's a stretch to say that the bugbear is waiting in ambush (unless he happens to be hunting rats or something). He might be skinning the rats he caught, cooking his rat stew, gambling with some hobgoblins, or grabbing some shut eye. He certainly isn't standing in a darkened corner 24/7 waiting for the PCs to come along so that he can ambush them. I disagree that you should modify the XP if the players manage to ambush the bugbears rather than the other way around. Admittedly, the difficulty of the encounter is different, but in my opinion the XP should be the same. If the players are clever (or even just lucky) enough to avoid being ambushed, they should not be penalized XP. If, on the other hand, the DM never has the bugbears ambush even when they have the perfect circumstances for it, the DM ought to simply use a more straight-forward monster and reskin that as a bugbear. However, Surprise Attack isn't a big enough factor in the Bugbear's CR IMO to justify reducing it from a CR 1 to a CR 1/2. If you really want to use bugbears and never ambush, I'd say add another goblin or two to the encounter to make up the difference in challenge (and give the players XP for those goblins as normal - the players shouldn't have to pay the price for the DM's laziness). I'm not trying to accuse anyone of badwrongfun, just stating my own POV on the matter. [/QUOTE]
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adjusting 5E zombies to be like walkers?
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