D&D 5E (2014) Adjusting Wildshape

[Xeviat]

This reminds me of the system I'm working on, largely based on 3.5's PHB2 wildshape variant.


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[Hawk Diesel]

My suggestion is to have the form give buffs to physical scores, instead of replacement ones.

So a combat form might get:
+4 AC
+4 Str
+2 Dex
+2 Con

And a Scouting form might get
+2 AC
+4 Dex
+30 movement speed
+flight or swim as appropriate to the form.

And a "travel" form might get:
+2 AC
+2 Str
+4 Con
+10 movement

I would still limit large and tiny size by level. I would fluff these up with some other fitting bonuses and attacks and stuff. Maybe add some varieties based on if someone wants their travel form to be a Yak instead of a Horse or a Camel. Add in some scaling bonuses based on level.

I too dislike raiding the MM for animal stats, and I don't find the animal stats to be very nice anyway.

So that's definitely one way to achieve a similar effect, and has the benefit of simplicity. But for me, it doesn't feel close enough to transforming. If you have a 12 strength naturally and turn into a mouse, it doesn't make sense that only a few things change and possibly super strong for a mouse. I'm not arguing that rules should be completely simulationist, buy some balance between changing all your stats into a specific beast stat block, and small adjustment you put over your true form.

And [MENTION=57494]Xeviat[/MENTION], I was actually curious of your thoughts, as we seem to have some similar tendencies with homebrew and redesigning existing mechanics.

 

[Hawk Diesel]

Originally I tried to use a point system for various beast traits, to parallel a kind of spell variant for wildshape. But that seemed too unwieldy and unintuitive. But as I've been working on a couple or archetypes with companion features, I decided it might be a better way to implement what I was envisioning.

 

[Tony Vargas]

So I've had a problem with Wildshape ever since 3.5. My issues with it are as follows:

1) I don't like players (myself included) having to flip through the Monster Manual to figure out your stats and determine if its the best option. In addition, technically you need to have seen the animal before. I like this limit, but it also seems artificial.

2) It is very hard to balance or standardize beasts against one another, even of the same CR. Some are are able to do massive damage with poison or have other abilities (multiattack for the Giant Badger, which even a non-Moon Druid could use at level 2) that make them clear favorites.

3) Keeping track of your potential forms is a headache in itself.

At least one playtest version of the druid had a fixed list of available forms, with stat blocks that were pretty reasonable...

 

[Xeviat]

Originally I tried to use a point system for various beast traits, to parallel a kind of spell variant for wildshape. But that seemed too unwieldy and unintuitive. But as I've been working on a couple or archetypes with companion features, I decided it might be a better way to implement what I was envisioning.

I was looking at this too. Then I looked at building some packages, like "cat", "dog", "bear", "eagle" ... but I couldn't figure out which to use without leaving any out. Ultimately, I said "use forms from the M&M", but only for the special abilities, speed, and attack riders.

My version keeps PC HP, grants Dex+Wis for AC, Wis for attack and damage, and some other things (like a smite). I did a similar thing with your forms, with a scout form and a base form for normal wildshape (earning swimming and flying options later), plus a predator form, dire form, elemental form, and behemoth form for Moon.

I was thinking of putting it together for DM's Guild, but I haven't been able to get my group together to test. It compares well against the Fighter and Rogue if you use your spell slots to match HP/healing/avoidance and you use the rest for damage.


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[Hawk Diesel]

So I'm looking at my formula for combat wildshape HP. It seems at lower levels, the combat form's HP is a bit higher than the average HP of the available wildshape options. But at higher levels, the combat form's HP is a bit lower than the average HP of available wildshape options. So I'd say I eyeballed that pretty well.

In addition, earliest wild shape forms that offer huge size is 9. When a combat form can become huge, I'd say they should also gain double damage dice for their attacks. But with the existing way moon druids gain abilities for their combat form is connected to ASIs. I feel like offering huge size at level 8 is too early, so maybe as an option at level 12 makes more sense.

But then again, the ability to take the form of an elemental at level 10 for the cost of 2 wildshapes breaks trend with the moon Druid's normal wildshape progression. Technically, using this ability they can take the shape of a CR 5 elemental at level 10. Normally, a CR 5 creature wouldn't be available until level 15. Plus all the immunities and resistances, as well as attack forms, make it difficult to incorporate these abilities into my proposed adjustment to wildshape.

So, as I see it, perhaps at level 10 we allow 2 new options that are templates to the combat form. One would be a huge version that doubles damage dice. The other would create an elemental version of your combat form, but simplified. You'd gain immunity to one energy type associated with your chosen element at the time of wildshaping (and even perhaps getting healed when subjected to attacks of that energy type), and also a special ability or two tied to your chosen element.

As I see it, doing it that way wouldn't require two wildshape uses, since you would get many fewer immunities and resistances. This can also be interesting by making it easier to in a sense create new elementals related to other energy types (acid, poison, lightning, cold, ect).

But I'm just kind of thinking out loud.

I'd also say that starting at a certain level, you could raise your combat form stats above 20 (to a max of 24 maybe).

 

[Hawk Diesel]

Welcome to the forum [MENTION=6908026]Danielle Efurd[/MENTION]! Glad you are enjoying the forum! ^_^