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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Death By Surfeit" data-source="post: 689382" data-attributes="member: 8646">Ladies and gentlemen, we have the dubious privilege of enjoying our very first ethical debate. I will drop any guise of being an impartial moderator or arbitrator, and merely put across the stance I feel is closest to my feelings as a person and my duty as a conceptual editor of the guide.Nobody doubts the immorality of NC situations, and everyone is entitled to raise concerns in that area. As editors of a guide designed to explicit specifications, it seemed likely that the issue be brought up; nevertheless it should not detract from the building of the guide as a whole.First of all I would like to make it clear that the Guide was not intended to portray NC situations as in any way acceptable, good or whatever you have it. Within the scope of any rules set it is possible to manipulate the game mechanics into morally ‘wrong’ situations. The situation Kahuna suggested is an extreme case scenario (using, it must be said, rules that have since been replaced) that does not give a fair representation of the overall situation. Indeed, it is not even a feasible occurence: a -10 techniquue penalty (arousal from anal penetration?) to Prowess with a +10 (using an average value) unwilling and most likely a +10 sexuality bonus to resisting Fortitude saves makes any kind of effect extremely unlikely indeed. On a conceptual level, a 10th-level fighter is equally (in fact, much more) capable of walking up and slaughtering a passing peasant, and has many feats making the task easier - regardless, core D&D rules are not considered immoral.Furthermore, an emphasis must be placed that roleplaying games are essentially (SPOILER ALERT!) make-believe. A gaming group that decides to kick back and play a party of adventurers that are the scourge of the free world are not evil - some would even say that it is the hallmark of a good roleplayer to be able to decline your real-world beliefs and immerse yourself transiently in the role of the character.I personally am loathe to make value judgements or to impose censorship on thoughts or ideas. The core mechanics and, I should hope, the completed Guide do not seek to make any moral decisions - the issue of NC situations has been brought up, catered for but essentially left to the group’s own judgement. The material posted, which was nothing more than an agglomeration of previously written text, does not ‘recommend’ anything - should it be implemented, it is the decision of the group alone whether or not to use it, and nobody else’s concern.We could indeed choose to simply not address the issue, but there is little reason to pursue this: the situation is likely to come up (after all, we are effectively codifying erotic fantasy fiction where, in my experience, it tends to happen) and readers will be confused as to why we didn’t address it. If things were, indeed, too horrific to mention, the Holocaust would doubtless be deleted from history books.Kahuna, your thoughts will be considered, but nevertheless I am apprehensive toward the concept that therein lies the answer: beyonds a little sensationalism (does the fact it was a male rape make it any worse?) the only message I am getting is that you would like to see the material included, indeed that you would like to do it yourself, but having rebranded it as ‘Vile’. I do not see how a changed monicker adds to the integrity of the work.Sorry if this comes across as a little harsh, Kahuna, but your post came across as an attack on us for merely discussing material; if your interest was indeed constructive criticism, would you please avoid taking such a aggressive, sarcastic and condescending standpoint. I, for one, resent being bullied into sacrificing avenues of thought in order to accomodate your personal qualms.I hope the rest of the editorial team sides with me on this issue; I feel that it is best that we value creativity over self-censorship and would like to see the guide emerge as we should wish it to. Our position would, perhaps, be a little more justified if we had a brief writeup on the matter and how we’ve addressed it, a task I am more than willing to work on when the guide is approaching its final stages. Indeed, one already exists in the NUCK, but is a little to opinionated for my tastes.It is my earnest hope that we can continue work unfettered by these problems: everyone has worked their best to produce a guide that, although embryonic, shows great potential that should stand up to criticism. Keep all of your contributions coming; everything posted so far has been of immeasurate value and of the best standard I could have hoped for. Ever onward!Death By SurfeitNB: I was going to write up my opinions on sexual arts, their relation to feats and suchlike, but I felt this matter needed to be resolved first. I will make said post sometime in the next few days - keep things coming in the meantime!</blockquote>

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