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<blockquote data-quote="Andrew Moreton" data-source="post: 7926275" data-attributes="member: 6920268">Mechanically in Pathfinder I would blame it on a Wish spell cast by Kasavarina if I had to use mechanics, Harkover can't cast 9th level spells so it would be magic beyond him. My modified version of Kasavarina gets up to 18 levels of Sorceror casting so Wish is available. Alternativly if you want mechanics the ritual rules from the Occult book could easily be used to produce this sort of effect in a way Harkover could not break.&nbsp; Making Harkover a skilled magician is already quite difficult mechanically he is not an old enough sorceror to get great power that way , so he has to be a high level wizard or Sorceror as well as a dragon and that is a rare and powerful thing in the rules, or if you boost his age to give him the sorcery he is physically far too powerful for the occasions on which he can use his draconic abilities in books 9 and 13.In general though I don't see this as strongarming the players , they are dealing with a ruthless group which at the moment has access to people and magics much more powerful than them so they should ocasionally encounter a situation that the Ob has prepared for and be unnable to overcome those preperations. If the Ob are not scary and powerful early on the players will not have a proper respect and fear of them. I know that as late as the end of book 8 my players are aware that the Ob's most powerful people are much more capable then them and are worried about the risk of fighting Nic or the Ghost council again , they know that Kasavarina at full power would be a TPK if they&nbsp; fought her as they have a character sheet for her</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Andrew Moreton, post: 7926275, member: 6920268"] Mechanically in Pathfinder I would blame it on a Wish spell cast by Kasavarina if I had to use mechanics, Harkover can't cast 9th level spells so it would be magic beyond him. My modified version of Kasavarina gets up to 18 levels of Sorceror casting so Wish is available. Alternativly if you want mechanics the ritual rules from the Occult book could easily be used to produce this sort of effect in a way Harkover could not break. Making Harkover a skilled magician is already quite difficult mechanically he is not an old enough sorceror to get great power that way , so he has to be a high level wizard or Sorceror as well as a dragon and that is a rare and powerful thing in the rules, or if you boost his age to give him the sorcery he is physically far too powerful for the occasions on which he can use his draconic abilities in books 9 and 13. In general though I don't see this as strongarming the players , they are dealing with a ruthless group which at the moment has access to people and magics much more powerful than them so they should ocasionally encounter a situation that the Ob has prepared for and be unnable to overcome those preperations. If the Ob are not scary and powerful early on the players will not have a proper respect and fear of them. I know that as late as the end of book 8 my players are aware that the Ob's most powerful people are much more capable then them and are worried about the risk of fighting Nic or the Ghost council again , they know that Kasavarina at full power would be a TPK if they fought her as they have a character sheet for her [/QUOTE]

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