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Message: <blockquote data-quote="happyhermit" data-source="post: 7032770" data-attributes="member: 6834463">I am fairly certain that there were less players of 4e than 3e, though I agree it is hard to measure and don't want to get into unconfirmable hypothesis about DDI subscriber numbers and what they mean. I am sure we can at least agree the books weren't selling amazingly well.What I was mostly referring to though, was the upward trend you mentioned at the end of 4e, that is counter to what I saw. 4e seemed to be doing fairly well at first, which is part of why I thought I should give Wotc another shot after not being enthralled with 3.x (to say the least). A few years later though and it seemed like nobody was playing it and local stores no longer even had a D&D section. Maybe it was things like DDI replacing stores but the overall result was the fact that D&D 4e seemed almost invisible compared to 3.x, Pathfinder, and especially 5e. A podcast or two that I still listen to were about the only 4e I really saw in the last years and I hung out in the same real and virtual places more or less.</blockquote>