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<blockquote data-quote="Veritas" data-source="post: 1799935" data-attributes="member: 24638">There were a few people in brehobit's &quot;low magic ideas&quot; thread that were interested in this system of mine, so I thought I'd post it out here for everyone to see... let me know what you think.Masterwork weaponsThis is a system for advanced masterwork weapons. The longer lived races, especially elves and dwarves, are known for the exquisite weapons they are capable of producing, however from the base rules, it doesn't matter how good a mastercraft weapon is, or how good the person crafting it is, it only gets a +1 attack bonus. Under this system, it is possible for weapons to have higher bonuses due to exceptional craftsmanship, and bonuses to attack, damage or both.This system is not meant to exist concurrently with the system for magical enhancement bonuses. This system is meant to replace that concept. Under these rules, a weapon is forged with a specific set of mundane mastercraft bonuses (determined before the attempt is made). These bonuses do not count towards defeating damage reduction in any way.A magical weapon can then be created from these mundane mastercraft weapons by adding special abilities to the weapon. Only at this time do the mundane bonuses to attack and damage become magical bonuses.Human ManufactureHumans can create any melee weapon as masterwork, but they do not have the skill necessary to create the advanced masterwork weapons of the longer-lived races. They can also construct might composite long and short bows at the same bonuses and costs listed in the Player's Handbook.Superior Balance+1 attack&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +300gpSuperior weight or blade edge+1 damage&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +400gpSuperior balance and weight or blade edge+1 attack/+1 damage&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +800gpElven ManufactureWhen creating weapons of masterwork quality, elves concentrate on what they know best… swords and bows. They are masters at making superbly balanced weapons and they have even perfected the technique of specially balancing a medium-sized bladed weapon so as to make it usable with the Weapon Finesse feat.Bladed Weapons (longswords, shortswords, rapiers, scimitars, daggers, arrows)Superior Balance+1 attack&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +300gp+2 attack&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +1200gp+3 attack&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +2700gp+4 attack&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +4800gpSuperior blade edge+1 damage&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +400gp+2 damage&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +1500gp+3 damage&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +3000gpFinesse weapons (longswords and scimitars only)+1 Dex bonus&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +300gp+2 Dex bonus&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +600gp+3 Dex bonus&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +900gp+4 Dex bonus&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +1200gpSuperior balance and edge+(Attack bonus cost + Damage bonus cost + 100gp/pip of highest bonus)Example: +2 attack/+3 damage longsword costs:+1200gp for attack bonus+3000gp for damage bonus+300gp for combining them---------+4500gp totalBows (longbow, shortbow, composite bows)Superior balance (any bow)+1 attack&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +300gp+2 attack&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +1200gp+3 attack&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +2700gp+4 attack&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +4800gpMighty composite shortbow+1 Str bonus&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +450gp+2 Str bonus&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +525gpMighty composite longbow+1 Str bonus&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +500gp+2 Str bonus&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +600gp+3 Str bonus&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +700gp+4 Str bonus&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +800gpSuperior balance and mighty (composite only)+(Attack bonus cost + Damage bonus cost + 100gp/pip of highest bonus)Example: +3 attack/+2 mighty composite shortbow costs:+2700gp for attack bonus+525gp for mighty bonus+300gp for combining them---------+3525gp totalDwarven ManufactureWeapons of Dwarven manufacture are some of the best in the world. Being a more martial race than the elves, dwarves have mastered construction of a far more diverse number of weapons, and although they do see the merits of a finely balanced weapon, they are most interested in the application of more damage to their enemies. Thus, their weapons have stronger construction and heavier blades or heads. Dwarven weapons tend to cost more than elven weapons, however this is due to the strength of their construction, which gives them a +5 bonus to hardness and a +10 bonus to hit points. The also weigh 25% more.Bladed Weapons (Axes, shortswords, longswords)Superior balance+1 attack&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +400gp+2 attack&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +1400gp+3 attack&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +3000gpSuperior blade edge+1 damage&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +500gp+2 damage&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +1700gp+3 damage&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +3300gp+4 damage&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +5200gpSuperior balance and blade edge+(Attack bonus cost + Damage bonus cost + 100gp/pip of highest bonus)Example: +2 attack/+4 damage bonus costs:+1400gp for attack bonus+5200gp for mighty bonus+400gp for combining them---------+6000gp totalBlunt Weapons (Maces, hammers, morningstars)Superior balance+1 attack&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +400gp+2 attack&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +1400gp+3 attack&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +3000gpSuperior weighted head+1 damage&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +200gp+2 damage&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +400gp+3 damage&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +600gp+4 damage&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +800gpSuperior balance and weight+(Attack bonus cost + Damage bonus cost + 100gp/pip of highest bonus)Example: +2 attack/+1 damage bonus warhammer costs+1400gp for attack bonus+200gp for damage bonus+200gp for combining them---------+1800gp totalFlails (light, heavy, dire flails)Superior weighted head+1 damage&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +200gp+2 damage&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +400gp+3 damage&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +700gp+4 damage&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +900gp+5 damage&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +1200gpPolearms (halberd, glaive, guisarme, ranseur, spears)Superior balance; reinforced+1 attack&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +300gp+2 attack&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +600gp+3 attack&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +900gpSuperior blade edge, strength, and construction (reinforced)+1 damage&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +400gp+2 damage&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +600gp+3 damage&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +800gp+4 damage&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +1000gpSuperior balance, edge and strength+(Attack bonus cost + Damage bonus cost + 100gp/pip of highest bonus)Example: +1 attack/+2 damage bonus costs+300gp for attack bonus+600gp for damage bonus+200gp for combining them---------+1100gp totalCrafting Masterwork WeaponsIt takes the utmost skill, concentration and patience to forge masterwork weapons such as these, and only a few could even attempt it, let alone succeed.Someone with Craft (Weaponsmith) can produce any of the listed melee weapons, and anyone with Craft (Bowmaking) can produce the ranged weapons. However, in addition to the DC listed in the skill description, the masterwork component of these weapons has a Craft DC of 20, +3 DC for every bonus they possess, and an added +3 to the DC if two bonuses are combined.For example, a 20th level elven Expert weaponsmith with 18 Int and Skill Focus (Weaponsmith) (thus a total craft (weaponsmith) skill of 23 ranks +4 Int +3 Skill focus = 30) attempts to create a longsword, +2 attack/+3 damage. The total DC would be 20 +6(attack bonus) +9(damage bonus) +3(combined bonus)= 38 DC. By taking 10, the smith could easily succeed in forging the weapon.Thus, with the weapon costing a total of 4515gp (45,150sp), the weapon would take over 7 months to complete if the elf was in no hurry. (Taking 10 for a 40 skill check total x 38 DC = 1520. 45150/1596=29.7 weeks or about 7 and a half months.) Of course, by rolling the skill check, it's possible to complete the work much quicker.A dwarven weaponsmith of equal ability (thus a 32 skill total with his racial bonus), construction the same weapon by the methods of his race would take around 8 months. (50,150sp cost, taking 10 for a total skill check of 42 x 38 DC = 1596. 50150/1596=31.4 weeks or almost 8 months). Note, however, that the dwarven weapon is stronger, and more durable.With few human smiths every exceeding 5th level expert, these types of weapons would be nearly impossible to produce. There may have been, at some time however, some human who achieved the level of skill that a dwarf or elf could reach. If such a human were to attempt any of the higher masterwork weapons, use the dwarven tables for any melee weapons they attempt and the elven bow entries for any bowmaking they attempt. Only elves are capable of constructing medium melee weapons to act as finesse weapons.Magical WeaponsA masterwork weapon can be made into a magical weapon by adding special abilities. These special abilities are the same as those detailed in the Dungeon Master's Guide.When you add a special magical ability to a masterwork weapon, that weapon's masterwork bonus to attack and/or damage now becomes a magical bonus. Therefore, if the weapon has an attack bonus, that bonus is now considered magical for the purposes of defeating damage resistance. If a MW weapon only has a damage bonus, it's attack bonus remains as +0, and it has no more chance to hit a creature with damage resistance than does a normal weapon. However, a +0 magical bonus does count as being greater than silver for the purposes of affecting lycanthropes and the like.When computing the cost of adding magical abilities to a masterwork weapon, the bonus for each ability is added together with the masterwork attack bonus, and this total bonus is used to calculate the cost of enchantment.Example: a masterwork dwarven shortsword, +2 attack/+3 damage has the Ghost Touch ability added to it, which has a magic bonus of +1. Therefore, the cost of adding the ability to the weapon is that of a +3 magic weapon (+2 attack bonus, +1 for Ghost Touch = +3), or +18,000gp. If the weapon was being constructed and immediately enchanted, the 18,000gp would be added to the cost of the masterwork weapon (5008 gp) for a total of 23,008 gp. The weapon retains its +2 attack and +3 damage bonuses, but these bonuses are now considered to be magical in nature.Effective Weapon Bonus&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Cost*+1 ------- +2,000gp+2 ------- +8,000gp+3 ------- +18,000gp+4 ------- +32,000gp+5 ------- +50,000gp+6**----- +72,000gp+7**----- +98,000gp+8**----- +128,000gp+9**----- +168,000gp+10**---- +200,000gp*This price is for 50 arrows, crossbow bolts, or sling bullets.**A weapon can't actually have a bonus higher than +5. Use these lines to determine price when special abilities are added in.Melee Weapon Special AbilitiesSpecial Ability&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Modifier*Bane&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +1Defending&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +1Flaming&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +1Frost&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +1Shock&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +1Ghost Touch&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +1Keen&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +1Ki focus&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +1Merciful&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +1Mighty cleaving&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +1Spell storing&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +1Throwing&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +1Thundering&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +1Vicious&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +1Anarchic&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +2Axiomatic&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +2Disruption&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +2Flaming burst&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +2Icy burst&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +2Holy&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +2Shocking burst&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +2Unholy&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +2Wounding&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +2Speed&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +3Brilliant energy&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +4Dancing&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +4Vorpal&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +5*Add to attack bonus from masterwork to determine total market price.Range Weapon Special AbilitiesSpecial Ability&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Modifier*Bane&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +1Distance&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +1Flaming&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +1Frost&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +1Merciful&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +1Returning&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +1Shock&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +1Seeking&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +1Thundering&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +1Vicious&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +1Anarchic&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +2Axiomatic&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +2Disruption&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +2Flaming burst&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +2Holy&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +2Icy burst&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +2Shocking burst&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +2Unholy&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +2Speed&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +3Brilliant energy&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +4*Add to attack bonus from masterwork to determine total market price.--------------------------------------------------------------------------Now, the times for manufacture are a bit high, perhaps, but these weapons are supposed to be rare, and having a PC just walk into a weaponsmith shop and order one is supposed to be a rare occurance. More likely these are found in treasure hordes. Basically, what's 8 months for a Dwarf who lives for 400 years or an elf that lives for 1000 years? heh.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Veritas, post: 1799935, member: 24638"] There were a few people in brehobit's "low magic ideas" thread that were interested in this system of mine, so I thought I'd post it out here for everyone to see... let me know what you think. [b][u]Masterwork weapons[/u][/b] This is a system for advanced masterwork weapons. The longer lived races, especially elves and dwarves, are known for the exquisite weapons they are capable of producing, however from the base rules, it doesn't matter how good a mastercraft weapon is, or how good the person crafting it is, it only gets a +1 attack bonus. Under this system, it is possible for weapons to have higher bonuses due to exceptional craftsmanship, and bonuses to attack, damage or both. This system is not meant to exist concurrently with the system for magical enhancement bonuses. This system is meant to replace that concept. Under these rules, a weapon is forged with a specific set of mundane mastercraft bonuses (determined before the attempt is made). These bonuses do not count towards defeating damage reduction in any way. A magical weapon can then be created from these mundane mastercraft weapons by adding special abilities to the weapon. Only at this time do the mundane bonuses to attack and damage become magical bonuses. [b]Human Manufacture[/b] Humans can create any melee weapon as masterwork, but they do not have the skill necessary to create the advanced masterwork weapons of the longer-lived races. They can also construct might composite long and short bows at the same bonuses and costs listed in the Player's Handbook. Superior Balance +1 attack +300gp Superior weight or blade edge +1 damage +400gp Superior balance and weight or blade edge +1 attack/+1 damage +800gp [b]Elven Manufacture[/b] When creating weapons of masterwork quality, elves concentrate on what they know best… swords and bows. They are masters at making superbly balanced weapons and they have even perfected the technique of specially balancing a medium-sized bladed weapon so as to make it usable with the Weapon Finesse feat. [u]Bladed Weapons[/u] (longswords, shortswords, rapiers, scimitars, daggers, arrows) Superior Balance +1 attack +300gp +2 attack +1200gp +3 attack +2700gp +4 attack +4800gp Superior blade edge +1 damage +400gp +2 damage +1500gp +3 damage +3000gp Finesse weapons (longswords and scimitars only) +1 Dex bonus +300gp +2 Dex bonus +600gp +3 Dex bonus +900gp +4 Dex bonus +1200gp Superior balance and edge +(Attack bonus cost + Damage bonus cost + 100gp/pip of highest bonus) Example: +2 attack/+3 damage longsword costs: +1200gp for attack bonus +3000gp for damage bonus +300gp for combining them --------- +4500gp total [u]Bows[/u] (longbow, shortbow, composite bows) Superior balance (any bow) +1 attack +300gp +2 attack +1200gp +3 attack +2700gp +4 attack +4800gp Mighty composite shortbow +1 Str bonus +450gp +2 Str bonus +525gp Mighty composite longbow +1 Str bonus +500gp +2 Str bonus +600gp +3 Str bonus +700gp +4 Str bonus +800gp Superior balance and mighty (composite only) +(Attack bonus cost + Damage bonus cost + 100gp/pip of highest bonus) Example: +3 attack/+2 mighty composite shortbow costs: +2700gp for attack bonus +525gp for mighty bonus +300gp for combining them --------- +3525gp total [b]Dwarven Manufacture[/b] Weapons of Dwarven manufacture are some of the best in the world. Being a more martial race than the elves, dwarves have mastered construction of a far more diverse number of weapons, and although they do see the merits of a finely balanced weapon, they are most interested in the application of more damage to their enemies. Thus, their weapons have stronger construction and heavier blades or heads. Dwarven weapons tend to cost more than elven weapons, however this is due to the strength of their construction, which gives them a +5 bonus to hardness and a +10 bonus to hit points. The also weigh 25% more. [u]Bladed Weapons[/u] (Axes, shortswords, longswords) Superior balance +1 attack +400gp +2 attack +1400gp +3 attack +3000gp Superior blade edge +1 damage +500gp +2 damage +1700gp +3 damage +3300gp +4 damage +5200gp Superior balance and blade edge +(Attack bonus cost + Damage bonus cost + 100gp/pip of highest bonus) Example: +2 attack/+4 damage bonus costs: +1400gp for attack bonus +5200gp for mighty bonus +400gp for combining them --------- +6000gp total [u]Blunt Weapons[/u] (Maces, hammers, morningstars) Superior balance +1 attack +400gp +2 attack +1400gp +3 attack +3000gp Superior weighted head +1 damage +200gp +2 damage +400gp +3 damage +600gp +4 damage +800gp Superior balance and weight +(Attack bonus cost + Damage bonus cost + 100gp/pip of highest bonus) Example: +2 attack/+1 damage bonus warhammer costs +1400gp for attack bonus +200gp for damage bonus +200gp for combining them --------- +1800gp total [u]Flails[/u] (light, heavy, dire flails) Superior weighted head +1 damage +200gp +2 damage +400gp +3 damage +700gp +4 damage +900gp +5 damage +1200gp [u]Polearms[/u] (halberd, glaive, guisarme, ranseur, spears) Superior balance; reinforced +1 attack +300gp +2 attack +600gp +3 attack +900gp Superior blade edge, strength, and construction (reinforced) +1 damage +400gp +2 damage +600gp +3 damage +800gp +4 damage +1000gp Superior balance, edge and strength +(Attack bonus cost + Damage bonus cost + 100gp/pip of highest bonus) Example: +1 attack/+2 damage bonus costs +300gp for attack bonus +600gp for damage bonus +200gp for combining them --------- +1100gp total [b]Crafting Masterwork Weapons[/b] It takes the utmost skill, concentration and patience to forge masterwork weapons such as these, and only a few could even attempt it, let alone succeed. Someone with Craft (Weaponsmith) can produce any of the listed melee weapons, and anyone with Craft (Bowmaking) can produce the ranged weapons. However, in addition to the DC listed in the skill description, the masterwork component of these weapons has a Craft DC of 20, +3 DC for every bonus they possess, and an added +3 to the DC if two bonuses are combined. For example, a 20th level elven Expert weaponsmith with 18 Int and Skill Focus (Weaponsmith) (thus a total craft (weaponsmith) skill of 23 ranks +4 Int +3 Skill focus = 30) attempts to create a longsword, +2 attack/+3 damage. The total DC would be 20 +6(attack bonus) +9(damage bonus) +3(combined bonus)= 38 DC. By taking 10, the smith could easily succeed in forging the weapon. Thus, with the weapon costing a total of 4515gp (45,150sp), the weapon would take over 7 months to complete if the elf was in no hurry. (Taking 10 for a 40 skill check total x 38 DC = 1520. 45150/1596=29.7 weeks or about 7 and a half months.) Of course, by rolling the skill check, it's possible to complete the work much quicker. A dwarven weaponsmith of equal ability (thus a 32 skill total with his racial bonus), construction the same weapon by the methods of his race would take around 8 months. (50,150sp cost, taking 10 for a total skill check of 42 x 38 DC = 1596. 50150/1596=31.4 weeks or almost 8 months). Note, however, that the dwarven weapon is stronger, and more durable. With few human smiths every exceeding 5th level expert, these types of weapons would be nearly impossible to produce. There may have been, at some time however, some human who achieved the level of skill that a dwarf or elf could reach. If such a human were to attempt any of the higher masterwork weapons, use the dwarven tables for any melee weapons they attempt and the elven bow entries for any bowmaking they attempt. Only elves are capable of constructing medium melee weapons to act as finesse weapons. [b]Magical Weapons[/b] A masterwork weapon can be made into a magical weapon by adding special abilities. These special abilities are the same as those detailed in the Dungeon Master's Guide. When you add a special magical ability to a masterwork weapon, that weapon's masterwork bonus to attack and/or damage now becomes a magical bonus. Therefore, if the weapon has an attack bonus, that bonus is now considered magical for the purposes of defeating damage resistance. If a MW weapon only has a damage bonus, it's attack bonus remains as +0, and it has no more chance to hit a creature with damage resistance than does a normal weapon. However, a +0 magical bonus does count as being greater than silver for the purposes of affecting lycanthropes and the like. When computing the cost of adding magical abilities to a masterwork weapon, the bonus for each ability is added together with the masterwork attack bonus, and this total bonus is used to calculate the cost of enchantment. Example: a masterwork dwarven shortsword, +2 attack/+3 damage has the Ghost Touch ability added to it, which has a magic bonus of +1. Therefore, the cost of adding the ability to the weapon is that of a +3 magic weapon (+2 attack bonus, +1 for Ghost Touch = +3), or +18,000gp. If the weapon was being constructed and immediately enchanted, the 18,000gp would be added to the cost of the masterwork weapon (5008 gp) for a total of 23,008 gp. The weapon retains its +2 attack and +3 damage bonuses, but these bonuses are now considered to be magical in nature. [u]Effective Weapon Bonus[/u] [u]Cost*[/u] +1 ------- +2,000gp +2 ------- +8,000gp +3 ------- +18,000gp +4 ------- +32,000gp +5 ------- +50,000gp +6**----- +72,000gp +7**----- +98,000gp +8**----- +128,000gp +9**----- +168,000gp +10**---- +200,000gp *This price is for 50 arrows, crossbow bolts, or sling bullets. **A weapon can't actually have a bonus higher than +5. Use these lines to determine price when special abilities are added in. Melee Weapon Special Abilities Special Ability Modifier* Bane +1 Defending +1 Flaming +1 Frost +1 Shock +1 Ghost Touch +1 Keen +1 Ki focus +1 Merciful +1 Mighty cleaving +1 Spell storing +1 Throwing +1 Thundering +1 Vicious +1 Anarchic +2 Axiomatic +2 Disruption +2 Flaming burst +2 Icy burst +2 Holy +2 Shocking burst +2 Unholy +2 Wounding +2 Speed +3 Brilliant energy +4 Dancing +4 Vorpal +5 *Add to attack bonus from masterwork to determine total market price. Range Weapon Special Abilities Special Ability Modifier* Bane +1 Distance +1 Flaming +1 Frost +1 Merciful +1 Returning +1 Shock +1 Seeking +1 Thundering +1 Vicious +1 Anarchic +2 Axiomatic +2 Disruption +2 Flaming burst +2 Holy +2 Icy burst +2 Shocking burst +2 Unholy +2 Speed +3 Brilliant energy +4 *Add to attack bonus from masterwork to determine total market price. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Now, the times for manufacture are a bit high, perhaps, but these weapons are supposed to be rare, and having a PC just walk into a weaponsmith shop and order one is supposed to be a rare occurance. More likely these are found in treasure hordes. Basically, what's 8 months for a Dwarf who lives for 400 years or an elf that lives for 1000 years? heh. [/QUOTE]

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