Advanced monsters and Caster levels

[rushlight]

IMC, I'm in need of an advanced Slaadi, a Death one, advanced to CR 20. I understand I could simply advance the HD up to 20, but I would like to give him 5 levels of sorcerer in order to get him access to extra spells, and for the SR penetration and Dispel checks.

In the MM, it clearly states that the CL from the monster increases with the CL gained from classes. The Slaadi is CL 15 already, and 5 levels of sorcerer makes it a CL 20.

Here's where I'm unsure - are the spells gained from the sorcerer levels the ones normally gained as you advance from 1st to 5th level? If that's the case, those 5 levels of sorcerer really don't add anywhere near enough to move the CR up to 20. Who shoots a Flaming Sphere at a group of 4 20th level characters? That's a joke. Should I add all the spells a 20th level sorcerer could cast? That seems like too much. Should I just add the difference in spells from 15th to 20th level?

Any suggestions would be appreciated!

 

[CRGreathouse]

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[Garnfellow]

IMC, I'm in need of an advanced Slaadi, a Death one, advanced to CR 20. I understand I could simply advance the HD up to 20, but I would like to give him 5 levels of sorcerer in order to get him access to extra spells, and for the SR penetration and Dispel checks.

In the MM, it clearly states that the CL from the monster increases with the CL gained from classes. The Slaadi is CL 15 already, and 5 levels of sorcerer makes it a CL 20.

Here's where I'm unsure - are the spells gained from the sorcerer levels the ones normally gained as you advance from 1st to 5th level? If that's the case, those 5 levels of sorcerer really don't add anywhere near enough to move the CR up to 20. Who shoots a Flaming Sphere at a group of 4 20th level characters? That's a joke. Should I add all the spells a 20th level sorcerer could cast? That seems like too much. Should I just add the difference in spells from 15th to 20th level?

Any suggestions would be appreciated!

OK, first off I've only got 3.0 Death Slaad stats and 3.5 monster advancement rules at hand. I'm not sure if slaadi got revised as seriously as the demons and devils of 3.5, so bear with me. My starting death slaad has 15 HD and is CR 13.

First, if you're looking to end up with a CR 20 encounter, here are some of your choices in 3.5:

(1) Advance by HD -- and note that you'll need to add /12/ HD to make a CR 20 encounter. 13 (starting CR) + 6 (12 additional outsider HD/2) +1 (size increase) = CR 20.

(2) Advance by sorcerer levels. Sorcerer is almost certainly a non-associated class for a death slaad, so you'll need to add /14/ sorcerer levels to make a CR 20 encounter. 13 (starting CR) + 7 (14 nonassociated levels/2) = 20.

Second, caster levels. This means one of three things:

(1) Caster level for spell-like abilities. These are cast at 18th level. Going strictly by the book, neither advancing by HD nor sorcerer levels will increase the caster level here. In fact, I am not aware of a method in the core rules that allows you to improve the CL for spell-like abilities that works for all monsters. Individual monster entries may specifiy that the caster level may increase with additional HD, but that does not seem to be the case for death slaad.

(2) Caster level for supernatural abilities. The alternate form ability is cast at 15th level. Again, neither advancing by HD nor sorcerer levels will increase the caster level here.

(2) Caster level for sorcerer spells. This is equal to the number of sorcerer levels, period, and do not stack with slaad HD. So if your slaad has 14 sorcerer levels, its sorcerer spells have a CL of 14.

 

[Silveras]

OK, first off I've only got 3.0 Death Slaad stats and 3.5 monster advancement rules at hand. I'm not sure if slaadi got revised as seriously as the demons and devils of 3.5, so bear with me. My starting death slaad has 15 HD and is CR 13.

Looks right to me.

(1) Caster level for spell-like abilities. These are cast at 18th level. Going strictly by the book, neither advancing by HD nor sorcerer levels will increase the caster level here. In fact, I am not aware of a method in the core rules that allows you to improve the CL for spell-like abilities that works for all monsters. Individual monster entries may specifiy that the caster level may increase with additional HD, but that does not seem to be the case for death slaad.

Check the Glossary, under Special Abilities, Spell-Like Abilities. Unless otherwise specified in the list of spell-like abilities, the Caster Level is assumed to equal the Hit Dice.

 

[Garnfellow]

Check the Glossary, under Special Abilities, Spell-Like Abilities. Unless otherwise specified in the list of spell-like abilities, the Caster Level is assumed to equal the Hit Dice.

And I read that to mean, if a caster level is specified and the monster description does not state otherwise, then the CL is fixed at that specified level -- and adding additional HD will not affect that CL.

Personally, I think it's generally not a problem to house rule that CL can increase +1 with every additonal racial HD.