Advanced Succubus Soul Eater/Fiend of Corruption

Garnfellow

Explorer
My players ran into this monster last weekend. It's a 3.5 succubus with levels in Soul Eater (a Book of Vile Darkness prestige class) and Fiend of Corruption (a Fiend Folio prestige class). I also added in a unique spell-like ability, Utter Thrall, based on a spell of the same name from the Book of Eldritch Might II.

Geraldine: female advanced succubus Soul Eater 4/Fiend of Corruption 6; CR 16; Medium Outsider (Chaotic, Extraplanar, Evil); HD 8d8+24 plus 4d8+12 plus 6d6+18; hp 129; Init +7; Spd 30 ft, fly 50 ft (average); AC 27, touch 15, flat-footed 24; BAB +16 Grp +17; Atk +18 melee (1d8+1 plus energy drain, claw); Full Atk +18 melee (1d8+1 plus energy drain, 2 claws); SA energy drain, geas, mark of justice, spell-like abilities, summon demon, temptation, utter thrall; SQ alternate form, fiend’s favor, fiendish graft, DR 10/cold iron or good, darkvision 60 ft, grant wish, immunity to electricity and poison, major creation, mind shielding, resistance to acid 10, cold 10, and fire 10, soul bargain, soul enhancement, soul strength, telepathy 100 ft, tongues; SR 21; AL CE; SV Fort +18, Ref +18, Will +18; Str 12, Dex 16, Con 16, Int 17, Wis 16, Cha 30.

Skills and Feats: Bluff +27, Concentration +14, Diplomacy +31, Disguise +25* (27 when being observed), Escape Artist +10, Hide +16, Intimidate +28, Knowledge (arcana) +10, Knowledge (religion) +7, Listen +23, Move Silently +16, Search +16, Sense Motive +20, Spellcraft +11, Spot +23, Survival +10 (+2 to find or follow tracks); Ability Focus (suggestion), Alertness, Boost Spell Resistance, Improved Initiative, Improved Natural Attack (claws), Persuasive, Weapon Focus (claws). *While using her alter self ability, Geraldine gains a +10 circumstance bonus on Disguise checks.

Energy Drain (Su): Living creatures hit by Geraldine’s claw attack gain one negative level, or two negative levels on a critical hit. For each negative level bestowed, Geraldine gains 5 temporary hit points (10 on a critical hit). Geraldine can use her energy drain ability once per round. The DC is 24 for the Fortitude save to remove a negative level. The save DC is Charisma-based.

Geraldine can also drain energy from a mortal she lures into some act of passion, or by simply planting a kiss on the victim. If the target is not willing to be kissed, Geraldine must start a grapple, which provokes an attack of opportunity. Geraldine’s kiss or embrace bestows one negative level, just as with her claw attack. The kiss also has the effect of a suggestion spell, asking the victim to accept another kiss from Geraldine. The victim must succeed on a DC 24 Will save to negate the effect of the suggestion.

Geas (Sp): Geraldine can use geas/quest once per day.

Mark of Justice (Sp): Geraldine can use mark of justice once per day to cement a good person’s descent into evil. Once her victim is living an immoral life, she uses mark of justice to ensure that he does not return to his old ways or seek atonement. She generally hides her mark in a location that is not obvious.

Soul Blast (Su): When Geraldine uses her energy drain ability, she may project a 100-foot ray of force that deals 3d6 points of damage against one target. The target is allowed a DC 24 Reflex save to avoid this damage. This ability can be used once per day, and only on a day when Geraldine has drained levels.

Spell-Like Abilities: At will—charm monster (DC 24), detect good, detect thoughts (DC 22), ethereal jaunt (self plus 50 pounds of objects only), polymorph (humanoid form only, no limit on duration), suggestion (DC 25), greater teleport (self plus 50 pounds of objects only). Caster level 12th. The save DCs are Charisma-based.

Summon Demon (Sp): Once per day Geraldine can attempt to summon 1 vrock with a 30% chance of success. This ability is the equivalent of a 3rd-level spell.

Temptation (Su): Geraldine can offer good creatures the opportunity to change their alignment to evil. This works like the redemption or temptation function of the atonement spell, and she can use this ability whenever the opportunity arises.

Utter Thrall (Sp): Once per day Geraldine can attempt to completely enslave any Medium or smaller humanoid within 250 feet. This power acts as a more powerful version of dominate person. The target gets a DC 28 Will save to resist. If the save fails, Geraldine establishes a telepathic link with the subject's mind and can convey her wishes. Geraldine knows what the subject is experiencing, but does not receive direct sensory input from him. The save DC is Charisma-based.

Subjects cannot resist this control and always act in the best interests of Geraldine, even if not commanded to do so. The subjects truly believe she is their rightful master and serve her lovingly with utter devotion. They carry out even self-destructive orders—in fact, thralls will give their lives willingly for the good of Geraldine, even if not commanded to do so. Once she establishes control, she can exercise it at unlimited range. She does not need to see the subject to control it.

Protection from evil or a similar spell can prevent Geraldine from exercising control or using the telepathic link while the subject is so warded, but it does not prevent the establishment of utter thrall nor dispel it.

The utter thrall effect is permanent unless dispelled, and there is no limit to the number of subjects Geraldine may enslave. This ability is the equivalent of an 8th-level spell.

Alternate Form (Su): Geraldine can assume any humanoid form of Small to Large size as a standard action. This ability is similar to the polymorph self spell but allows only humanoid forms. While using this ability, she gains a +10 circumstance bonus on Disguise checks.

Fiend’s Favor (Su): Once per day, Geraldine can grant a touched creature a +3 bonus to one of the creature’s ability scores. This bonus stacks with any other bonus the creature may already have and lasts for one day. When the effect expires, the creature takes a –3 penalty to the same ability score for the next day. Another application of fiend’s favor not only negates the penalty, but restores the full bonus.

Fiendish Graft (Su): Once per month, Geraldine can bestow a fiendish graft or symbiont on a willing mortal.

Grant Wish (Sp): Geraldine can grant a wish to a mortal (not an elemental, outsider, or nonliving creature) once per day. Using this ability costs her experience points as if she were casting a wish spell.

Major Creation (Sp): Geraldine can use major creation three times per day (caster level 6th).

Mind Shielding (Su): Geraldine is completely immune to detect thoughts, discern lies, and any attempt to magically discern her alignment.

Soul Enhancement (Su): When Geraldine uses her energy drain ability, she gains a +2 enhancement bonus to all saving throws, ability checks, and skill checks for 24 hours. This bonus stacks with any enhancement bonuses gained to ability scores that apply to saves or checks.

Soul Strength (Su): When Geraldine uses her energy drain ability, she gains a +4 enhancement bonus to Strength for 24 hours.

Tongues (Su): Geraldine has a permanent tongues ability (as the spell, caster level 12th). Succubi usually use verbal communication with mortals.

Possessions: bracers of armor +3, ring of protection +2, amulet of health +2 (reflected in the statistics above), 3,000 gp.

NOTE: Edited to increase her CR from 15 to 16, based on the discussion below. Also clarified the utter thrall description.
 
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Cool monster, but how does a succubus with 10 levels of character class become a CR15 monster, let alone an advanced succubus?

I love those fiendish PrCs!
 

Olive said:
Cool monster, but how does a succubus with 10 levels of character class become a CR15 monster, let alone an advanced succubus?

+2 HD = +1 CR for outsiders
+10 associated class levels = +10

Total CR 18. Plus anything you would add for the utter thrall ability (I'm thinking monsters handbook would call that a +1 for a creature of this CR.)

Perhaps he is calling some of those class levels not directly associated. Which would seem like an odd call to me, since the classes are made for fiends. OTOH, I can see that those classes don't really translate well into a straight fight. If your campaign consists of/rewards for sublte interactions vice just straight up fights, I could see using the full value.
 


Psion said:
+2 HD = +1 CR for outsiders
+10 associated class levels = +10

Total CR 18. Plus anything you would add for the utter thrall ability (I'm thinking monsters handbook would call that a +1 for a creature of this CR.)

Perhaps he is calling some of those class levels not directly associated. Which would seem like an odd call to me, since the classes are made for fiends. OTOH, I can see that those classes don't really translate well into a straight fight. If your campaign consists of/rewards for sublte interactions vice just straight up fights, I could see using the full value.

Well, on reflection I think CR 15 is probably too low. But here's how I came up with this number.

I ran the CR calculations a few different ways. The hardest call is determining whether neither, one, or both of the prestige classes should be an associated class for a succubus. I find it easiest (and most accurate) to make the adjustment of the Utter Thrall ability at the very end of the CR process.

If you assume that both classes are associated, you do indeed get CR 18 as Psion notes.

If you assume neither are associated you get CR 8 (base succubus) + 2 (4 levels of non-associated Soul Eater) + 2 (first 4 levels of non-associated Fiend of Corruption) + 2 (for the 2 remaining levels of Fiend of Corruption -- once your non-associated class levels equal the original HD, it's one for one) = CR 14.

My initial reaction was that neither number is very accurate: 14 is too low and 18 is too high. And here I primarily used a marilith (CR 17) as a gauge. Geraldine is clearly no marilith with half the hit points and the ability to do only a fraction of the damage per round.

Which leads to an interesting question: what should be an associated class for a succubus? On one hand, she's an outsider, which traditionally falls into the "brute force" category of associated classes -- fighter and barbarian. But on the other hand, the description for a succubus clearly states "Succubi are not warriors. They flee combat whenever they can." Her monster type is in inherent conflict with her "monster concept."

So if fighting classes are not associated, what is? She has no spells, so none of the spellcasting classes are good candidates. Rogue? Maybe -- they share a lot of the same class skills, but she doesn't have any rogue abilities like sneak attack that could stack. Still, rogue seems like the best fit.

So let's consider the prestige classes. Soul Eater is really just a fighting class that uses energy drain, so probably should be non-associated.

My first thought on Fiend of Corruption was the same as Psion's -- this class is designed for fiends, right? But take a hard look at the class abilities -- while all very cool, they generally have only marginal combat utility. An argument could be made that these levels ought to be counted as non-associated levels, just like levels in an NPC class. But since we've already made Soul Eater levels non-associated, let's be conservative here and count Fiend of Corruption as associated.

So let's see how these assumptions work: CR 8 (base succubus) + 2 (4 levels of non-associated Soul Eater) + 6 (6 associated levels of Fiend of Corruption) = CR 16. Better, clearly. I think we're in the ballpark here.

So let's look at the Utter Thrall ability. I use FFG's Monster's Handbook for these types of calculations, and have found the results to be very accurate. Utter Thrall is a spell-like ability mimicking an 8th-level spell, used once per day. The Handbook suggests that this effect will have a relative impact on a monster's CR -- so that it will really help out a weaker monster, but will not be so helpful to more powerful ones.

Using the Handbook's guidelines, adding this ability is like adding a separate CR 11 monster to the encounter. 1 CR 11 monster + 1 CR 16 monster = an EL 16 encounter, which would suggest no CR adjustment.

But let's give her the benefit of the doubt and add in a +1 CR, taking her up to CR 17. Next to a marilith, does Geraldine really hold up?

Not really -- but then again, Utter Thrall is a permanent, powerful ability. Do I really think this is worth a +0 CR adjustment?

[Deep breath]

Yeah -- for a CR 16 monster. In my experience, once you're above CR 14, additional abilities are very easy to overestimate. And remember, we started out with only a CR 7, out-of-the-box succubus. Any time you modify monsters so much that you've doubled their original CR, you really have to scrutinize your results.

As an alternative exercise, I ran the numbers as if Geraldine were a single encounter that consisted of 1 CR 8 monster (her succubus HD), 1 CR 10 monster (her NPC levels), and 1 CR 11 monster (her Utter Thrall ability). The result (CR 13) was obviously too low.

So at this point, I just rolled up my sleeves and did a qualitative analysis. I'm pretty confident that the magic number is somwhere above CR 14 and below CR 18. So I compared Geraldine to other 3.5 demons and devils (as well as some 15th, 16th, and 17th level NPC rogues and fighters) and ended up pushing her CR down to 15, thinking that in a stand-up fight two Geraldines would be about as nasty as 1 marilith.

After sleeping on it, I now think I would probably move it back to CR 16, if only to account for the Utter Thrall ability. I'd certainly appreciate any other perspectives, though.
 
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Cheiromancer said:
Duration on Utter Thrall? Can Geraldine have multiple thralls at the same time?

Duration is permanent and she can have multiple thralls. It can be dispelled, but it's a nasty power.
 
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Looking at soul eater, I think I would call Demon of Corruption associated and Soul Eater non associated. Level drain is nasty, but would be nastier on a creature with more powerful melee abilities.

And don't forget the Utter Thrall. I don't have the monsters handook (which I see you use from another thread) handy, but I think that spell would translate into a level 14 relative ability, which I think would be a +1 CR for a creature with a CR of 16 or more.

7+6+1/2*4=16+1=17.

Sounds about right.
 

Psion said:
Looking at soul eater, I think I would call Demon of Corruption associated and Soul Eater non associated. Level drain is nasty, but would be nastier on a creature with more powerful melee abilities.

The reason I asked is because I could never have concieved of calling those class levels non-associated, particularly the Fiend of Corruption.

How did your PCs handle her?
 

Psion said:
Looking at soul eater, I think I would call Demon of Corruption associated and Soul Eater non associated. Level drain is nasty, but would be nastier on a creature with more powerful melee abilities.

And don't forget the Utter Thrall. I don't have the monsters handook (which I see you use from another thread) handy, but I think that spell would translate into a level 14 relative ability, which I think would be a +1 CR for a creature with a CR of 16 or more.

7+6+1/2*4=16+1=17.

Sounds about right.

Yeah, I'm pretty confident that Soul Eater should be non-associated, but Fiend of Corruption associated -- so we're at CR 16 without factoring in the Utter Thrall.

Unless I'm missing a modifier somewhere, when I calculate the Utter Thrall ability with the Monster's Handbook, I get a base cost of 1200 CP (8th level spell) minus 100 CP (usable once/day) = 1100 CP. Divided by 100 = 11 CR relative impact -- not quiet enough to push a CR 16 to CR 17, but this is very, very close.

So I return to a qualitative check to see if I can tip the scales one way or the other. -- and every time I put this monster next to a CR 17 marilith, I'm convinced that Geraldine is significantly less powerful.
 
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