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<blockquote data-quote="Zelda Themelin" data-source="post: 9046" data-attributes="member: 167">This is the very reason why I don't like ECL:s. Sometimes taking character levels makes creatures stronger, but one can't still make weaker version as strong as strongest ones with character levels. Then again, in some cases even one right character level makes certain monster noticably more dangerous. Another problem is, that not all PC/NPC-parties are equal when facing monsters chalenges. And sometimes it is about single thing like 'immune to critical hits' (good bye, rogue adventage).Another problem is over-importance of spell-like abilities. Problem is that CR:s don't evolve in those as they should, so they are over-kill to lower level parties, but are doomed to fail against characters to whom monsters&nbsp; actually are supposed to be equal challenge.&nbsp; Spell DC:s in general (and SR) suffer from this lack of upper-end progress as well.These are very common headaches in games with for characters 14 levels and up.And sometimes CR-thing IMO just really stumbles into it's own 'cleaverness'.<a href="http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/fc/fc20011124a" target="_blank">http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/fc/fc20011124a</a>Now how well this monster compares to true CR 17/22 from monster manual? IMO not, because how it's dangerousness demands target is not immune to certain special effects. It's CR seems very much like character ECL to me.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Zelda Themelin, post: 9046, member: 167"] This is the very reason why I don't like ECL:s. Sometimes taking character levels makes creatures stronger, but one can't still make weaker version as strong as strongest ones with character levels. Then again, in some cases even one right character level makes certain monster noticably more dangerous. Another problem is, that not all PC/NPC-parties are equal when facing monsters chalenges. And sometimes it is about single thing like 'immune to critical hits' (good bye, rogue adventage). Another problem is over-importance of spell-like abilities. Problem is that CR:s don't evolve in those as they should, so they are over-kill to lower level parties, but are doomed to fail against characters to whom monsters actually are supposed to be equal challenge. Spell DC:s in general (and SR) suffer from this lack of upper-end progress as well. These are very common headaches in games with for characters 14 levels and up. And sometimes CR-thing IMO just really stumbles into it's own 'cleaverness'. [url]http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/fc/fc20011124a[/url] Now how well this monster compares to true CR 17/22 from monster manual? IMO not, because how it's dangerousness demands target is not immune to certain special effects. It's CR seems very much like character ECL to me. [/QUOTE]

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