Adventurers! Mount Up! [Or how the hell do mount mechanics work?]

hcubed_

First Post
So, my group is pretty keen on getting mounts. I'm a little apprahensive of letting them do this. Simply because I'm unsure of the rules. I don't want to make it too difficult for myself, being a fairly new DM. The DMG 1 only has the info regarding travel time over long distance. Not combat or anything else...

Or maybe it does and I'm just not seeing it?

But for the sake of keeping it fun for them I'm thinking of allowing mounts. But maybe not until 10th level or so. Just so we have the time for all of us to become more accustomed to the game.

But, I do have a couple of questions...

When a PC is riding a mount, does that player then move the speed of their mount in the mounts turn? And then forgo their own movement in their turn? How does this mechanic actually work?

Do they get any bonuses from being atop a mount?

Where can I find this information?

What experiences/ apprehensions have you other DMs out there had in regards to mounts?

Thanks in advance for any help. All the other RPG players I know are newbies too. So your collectively advanced years and knowledge are extremely helpful!
 

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Had the DMG at hand so:

The rider and mount always act on the rider's initiative. This is true even if the rider later dismounts and goes walking during an encounter.

There are no inherent benefits to being mounted, unless you count the (probably) increased speed and increased space (since mounts must be at least Large and you share your mount's space). You can, however, take the Mounted Combat feat to gain any Mount ability your mount has. For example, a normal Horse has the Charger ability that gives its rider +3 to damage with charges.

The rules for Mounted Combat are on page 46 of the DMG. The page is also listed on the index under, not surprisingly, Mounted Combat.

The only apprehension I have is that characters will have to keep switching to new mounts every few levels unless they want their mounts to die of Area or Close attacks easily. But, I haven't actually had any mounts in play, so I don't know if that'll actually be a problem.
 
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Worth noting that the mount rules in the DMG are almost entirely errata'd.

Mounts

Size: Your mount must be larger than you.

Adjacent: You must be adjacent to a creature to mount it.

Willing: You can use a creature as a mount only if it is willing.

Saddles: The rules assume that you ride a creature with a saddle. If you lack a saddle, you take a -2 penalty to attack rolls, AC, and Reflex defense while mounted.

Mounted Combat: Anyone can simply ride along with a beast of burden without using the Mounted Combat feat. The Mounted Combat feat allows you to make the most of a mount’s abilities. When you have the Mounted Combat feat and you ride a creature, you gain access to any special mount abilities it confers to its rider. (Not every creature has these abilities.) While you are riding a creature with Mounted Combat, the creature can make any Athletics, Acrobatics, Endurance, or Stealth checks using your base skill check bonus rather than its own if yours is better.

Mount and Rider

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Space: The rider and mount both occupy the mount’s space. However, the origin squares of the rider’s powers and other effects do not change to the mount’s size. Whenever the rider uses an effect that has an origin square (such as a melee, a ranged, an area, or a close power), the rider first picks where that square is located in the mount’s space, and the effect uses that origin square. For example, if a Medium rider uses a close burst attack power, the rider chooses a single square within the mount’s space, and the burst emanates from that square. This rule means that if the burst targets each creature within it, rather than each enemy, it can hit the mount.

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Targeting the Mount and Rider: Even though the mount and rider occupy the same space, they are still separate creatures and are targeted separately. For example, an attack that targets only one creature can target either the mount or the rider, not both. In contrast, area and burst attacks can affect both mount and rider, since the two are in the same space.

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Mount Benefits: Many mounts offer special attacks or benefits they can use or grant to their riders. These abilities range from flat bonuses, such as an AC bonus to the rider, to special attacks that the mount can use. The Monster Manual details the benefits that many creatures grant if the rider meets a minimum level and has the Mounted Combat feat. If the rider doesn’t meet a mount’s prerequisites, he or she can ride it but doesn’t gain the mount’s special benefits.

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Provoking Opportunity Attacks: If the mount’s movement provokes an opportunity attack, the attacker chooses to target either the mount or the rider, since the two of them move together. However, if the mount or the rider provokes an opportunity attack by using a ranged or an area power, the attacker must target whichever one of them provoked the opportunity attack.

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Forced Movement: If the mount is pulled, pushed, or slid, the rider moves with it. If the rider is pulled, pushed, or slid and the mount isn’t, the rider can have the two of them move together. Otherwise, the rider is dismounted and falls prone in the destination space of the forced movement.

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Teleportation: If either the mount or the rider is teleported, the other does not teleport with it. If the mount is teleported without the rider, the rider is dismounted and falls prone.



Mounts in Combat

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Mount (Move Action): The rider mounts a creature adjacent to it and enters its space.
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Dismount (Move Action): The rider dismounts, moving from the mount’s space to a square adjacent to it.
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Initiative: The mount and rider act on the rider’s initiative count, even if the mount had a different initiative before the rider mounted it. The two continue to act on the same initiative count after the rider dismounts. A monster and its mount have separate turns, whereas an adventurer and his or her mount have a single turn.
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Actions (Adventurers Only): An adventurer and his or her mount have one combined set of actions: a standard action, a move action, and a minor action. The player chooses how the two creatures use the actions on the adventurer’s turn. Most commonly, the mount takes a move action to walk or fly, and the adventurer takes a standard action to attack. The adventurer and the mount also share a single immediate action each round and a single opportunity action each turn. If the adventurer dismounts, the two still share one set of actions on that turn, but have separate sets of actions thereafter.
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Mount Attacks: The mount takes a -2 penalty to attack rolls unless the rider has the Mounted Combat feat. While not being ridden, a typical mount (such as a riding horse) rarely attacks on its own, unless it has been trained for battle, is defending itself, or feels unusually protective of its rider. Left to its own devices, a typical mount avoids combat.
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Charging: When the rider charges, the rider and mount move up to the mount’s speed and then the rider makes the charge attack. When the mount charges, it follows the normal rules for a charge.
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Squeezing: When the mount squeezes, the rider is also considered to be squeezing.
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Falling Prone: If the mount falls prone, the rider is dismounted and falls prone in an unoccupied space of the rider’s choice adjacent to the now-prone mount. However, if the mount is flying when it falls prone, the rider isn’t dismounted unless the mount lands and falls prone itself.
A rider who is knocked prone can immediately make a saving throw. On a roll lower than 10, the rider is dismounted and falls prone in an unoccupied space of the rider’s choice adjacent to the mount. On a roll of 10 or higher, the rider is neither dismounted nor knocked prone.
A rider who voluntarily drops prone falls prone in an unoccupied space of the rider’s choice adjacent to the mount.
 

Summarizing the above wall of rules text...

Mounts are very easy to handle in 4E. Mount and rider are treated as a single unit; in essence, when you get on a horse, you and the horse meld into a centaur. The centaur acts on the rider's initiative, and has access to all the abilities of both mount and rider (so, a fighter on a horse can take a standard action to use one of the fighter's attack powers, then a move action to use the horse's movement speed). Most of the time, that's all there is to it.

Particular wrinkles to be aware of:
  • The mount cannot act independently. It doesn't get a turn.
  • Any area effect that hits the mounted character will target both the PC and the mount separately.
  • Enemies can target the mount instead of the PC if they wish.
  • When the PC uses a close burst power, she chooses one of the mount's squares as the origin point. (Technically, this is true for any power, but using a close burst is the only time it makes a difference.) Also note that if a PC uses a close burst power that is capable of hitting allies, the mount is a target.
  • Some mounts have special abilities with the Mount keyword. These abilities are only usable when the rider has the Mounted Combat feat.
  • Be really, really careful allowing access to unusual mounts (e.g., griffons). PCs with flying mounts can be a major headache.
 
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What, no teleporting Pern dragon-riders? Shucks.

It's much weaker (and more balanced) than 3e, when a low-level ranger on a warhorse could wreck a small army of hobgoblins.

There are enemies in front of us? Hoof-hoof-bite! Now the horse 5-ft. steps away from the hobgoblins, so I can rapid shot them with impunity.

You attack me? I make a ride check to duck behind my horse and get +4 AC. Funny how the rules make no mention of how often you can do this. I'm flanked, eh? Well I'll duck on this side of the horse against the first attack, then behind the other side of the horse for the second attack.

The best, though, was the round where by random chance we had three horses arrayed side by side, with 5 ft. gaps between them:

---------
HH-HH-HH
HH-HH-HH
---------

And the DM, who was ridiculously adherent to the rules as written, agreed to let me fast mount as a free action (ride DC 20 when I had a +17 bonus), fast dismount, fast mount the next horse, fast dismount, fast mount the third horse, and then have that horse make a full attack.
 

As a DM, I'm confused when an encounter calls for a bad guy to mount, say, one of his Dire Wolves. I'm effectively losing one monster to make only a slightly stronger single monster (because of whatever bonuses they give one another). The mount's XP counts toward the encounter, but it doesn't add a whole monster's worth of threat to the fight.
 

As a DM, I'm confused when an encounter calls for a bad guy to mount, say, one of his Dire Wolves. I'm effectively losing one monster to make only a slightly stronger single monster (because of whatever bonuses they give one another). The mount's XP counts toward the encounter, but it doesn't add a whole monster's worth of threat to the fight.
Initiative: The mount and rider act on the rider’s initiative count, even if the mount had a different initiative before the rider mounted it. The two continue to act on the same initiative count after the rider dismounts. A monster and its mount have separate turns, whereas an adventurer and his or her mount have a single turn.

Or not.
 

Oh nice. I've been using PC rules.

edit: I don't see anything covering actions for monsters and mounts. I assume since the monster and mount are getting separate turns, the monster can't use his actions to make the mount do something. So a monster couldn't attack and move his mount, and then on the mounts turn have it move and attack.
 
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The only apprehension I have is that characters will have to keep switching to new mounts every few levels unless they want their mounts to die of Area or Close attacks easily. But, I haven't actually had any mounts in play, so I don't know if that'll actually be a problem.

Or you could level the mounts up with the pcs....

In my 3.5 halfling campaign, the kobold pc (the clan dog) had a dog of his own (a war dog IIRC). About the time the pcs hit, oh, 5th or 6th levelish, I gave the dog a level of fighter....
 

First up, sorry it's taken me so long to reply. I'm in Queensland where we've just had the huge floods. In addition to that, I work in a news room for the ABC so it's been quite hectic the past couple of weeks!

Anyway, continuing on with the discussion...

Summarizing the above wall of rules text...

Mounts are very easy to handle in 4E. Mount and rider are treated as a single unit; in essence, when you get on a horse, you and the horse meld into a centaur. The centaur acts on the rider's initiative, and has access to all the abilities of both mount and rider (so, a fighter on a horse can take a standard action to use one of the fighter's attack powers, then a move action to use the horse's movement speed). Most of the time, that's all there is to it.

Particular wrinkles to be aware of:
  • The mount cannot act independently. It doesn't get a turn.
  • Any area effect that hits the mounted character will target both the PC and the mount separately.
  • Enemies can target the mount instead of the PC if they wish.
  • When the PC uses a close burst power, she chooses one of the mount's squares as the origin point. (Technically, this is true for any power, but using a close burst is the only time it makes a difference.) Also note that if a PC uses a close burst power that is capable of hitting allies, the mount is a target.
  • Some mounts have special abilities with the Mount keyword. These abilities are only usable when the rider has the Mounted Combat feat.
  • Be really, really careful allowing access to unusual mounts (e.g., griffons). PCs with flying mounts can be a major headache.

I've been doing it wrong so far. One of the human ruffians in a recent encounter was riding a rage drake. I couldn't find the rules in the DMG for the life of me. And there would have been too much of an interuption should I had decided to study up on the rules for mounts then and there. So I did what I thought logical and had the rider and drake use seperate initiatives. But the rider could use the drake movement in his turn, then the drake again use it's movement in it's turn.


Initiative: The mount and rider act on the rider’s initiative count, even if the mount had a different initiative before the rider mounted it. The two continue to act on the same initiative count after the rider dismounts. A monster and its mount have separate turns, whereas an adventurer and his or her mount have a single turn.

Or not.

The above makes sense as, for example, the drake has a bite attack that was particularly useful for making the PC's fearful of getting close to it. Which worked well.

As it was a rage drake, it was meant to 'rage' once it reached it's bloodied value and gain an extra die worth of damage. But, instead, once the rider died I adlibbed a story about the drakes life with the rider flashing before it's eyes. Being hatched, fed, and raised by it's rider for years. And now he was dead. Sending it into a frenzy. The only female in the group simply said 'aaawwwww, now I feel bad for killing his rider.'

Morale is; I love making the player's feel guilty.


What, no teleporting Pern dragon-riders? Shucks.

This, I am seriously dreading this.
 

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