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Message: <blockquote data-quote="two" data-source="post: 1138294" data-attributes="member: 9002">er, not to disagree but,I guess I do disagree.What percentage of the time does "going first" or "high in the initiative order" really matter for a cleric in a combat?Then, given that it does matter for a combat, what percentage of the time will a +4 to initiative make a difference in the combat?In my experience, most combats don't start out BANG! you are face-to-face with danger.  Roll initiative.  Go.  Most of the time it's scout, or buff/prep, or somebody hears something then something happens leading to .... whatever.  Occasially there is an ambush, and in ambushes initiative can matter a lot.  But this is rare.Even more rare is that something so dire and horrible happens in the first round that it matter is Karl the Cleric goes at 15 or at 10 or at 5.  I just dont' see the big deal.  It's a cleric.  Clerics have good flatfooted AC, good saves, good hit points, no real weaknesses.  How can very occasionally going higher in the initiative order than the cleric would have gone without blowing a feat on it be BETTER or more useful than moving towards persistent feat, or extend, or etc.When you take "improved initiative" you are not just taking it, you are NOT taking another feat.  I'd say extend then persistent blows away any advantage improved init. will ever give.</blockquote>