Reply to thread

Message

<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 6683552" data-attributes="member: 4937">If a player suspects a trap, he's allowed to have his character search a 5' area for traps, right?&nbsp; If a player suspects a trap, is it metagaming, or does he have to roll to see if his character might have suspected a trap in the first place?Suppose the DM rolls in secret.&nbsp; The player is told he doesn't find a trap.&nbsp; Must the player now enter the 5' square believing there is no trap, or is he allowed to have his character suppose that he might wrong and try again or try a different plan?Suppose the roll isn't made in secret, and the die comes up a 1.&nbsp; If the player doesn't now enter the 5' square as if there is no trap, can the DM compel him to do so simply because the DM knows that the player knows the throw was a 1 and thus unlikely to have succeeded?&nbsp;&nbsp; Who is meta-gaming here again, and whose fault is it?Again, suppose the declarations and rolls were made in secret?&nbsp; Would it have been then wrong for the player to choose to have his character run away? For the record, the decision to feint without a feat that enhanced the action was a stupid one anyway.&nbsp;&nbsp; The odds of hitting AC 13 at least once in two tries are generally higher than hitting AC 10 at least once in a single try.&nbsp; Deciding to feint was a clumsy and poor tactical decision in this situation, and even if the player who ran away hadn't been acting on metagame knowledge, the gap in the combat was a perfect place to flee in.&nbsp; After all, the real situation being marked by feint is that you trick the opponent into some ill-advised action along a false line, perhaps stepping backward to invite a false timed step forward by your opponent, maybe dropping your blade low when plan to attack high, or whatever.&nbsp;&nbsp; If you step back feinting a defensive action when you really mean to rapidly attack as the opponent steps forward, it only matters that the foe didn't see through you plan, if the foes plan is to press the fight.&nbsp;&nbsp; If the foes plan is already leaning toward to disengage or withdraw, your feint however well made just results in the distance opening up.&nbsp; The narrative of the fight sounds to me more like the woodcutter's story in Rashomon. Point is, you don't get to pretend to adhere to the rules by making up things that aren't in the rules.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 6683552, member: 4937"] If a player suspects a trap, he's allowed to have his character search a 5' area for traps, right? If a player suspects a trap, is it metagaming, or does he have to roll to see if his character might have suspected a trap in the first place? Suppose the DM rolls in secret. The player is told he doesn't find a trap. Must the player now enter the 5' square believing there is no trap, or is he allowed to have his character suppose that he might wrong and try again or try a different plan? Suppose the roll isn't made in secret, and the die comes up a 1. If the player doesn't now enter the 5' square as if there is no trap, can the DM compel him to do so simply because the DM knows that the player knows the throw was a 1 and thus unlikely to have succeeded? Who is meta-gaming here again, and whose fault is it? Again, suppose the declarations and rolls were made in secret? Would it have been then wrong for the player to choose to have his character run away? For the record, the decision to feint without a feat that enhanced the action was a stupid one anyway. The odds of hitting AC 13 at least once in two tries are generally higher than hitting AC 10 at least once in a single try. Deciding to feint was a clumsy and poor tactical decision in this situation, and even if the player who ran away hadn't been acting on metagame knowledge, the gap in the combat was a perfect place to flee in. After all, the real situation being marked by feint is that you trick the opponent into some ill-advised action along a false line, perhaps stepping backward to invite a false timed step forward by your opponent, maybe dropping your blade low when plan to attack high, or whatever. If you step back feinting a defensive action when you really mean to rapidly attack as the opponent steps forward, it only matters that the foe didn't see through you plan, if the foes plan is to press the fight. If the foes plan is already leaning toward to disengage or withdraw, your feint however well made just results in the distance opening up. The narrative of the fight sounds to me more like the woodcutter's story in Rashomon. Point is, you don't get to pretend to adhere to the rules by making up things that aren't in the rules. [/QUOTE]

Verification