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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 6687791" data-attributes="member: 4937">Well, that's not entirely true.  AD&D didn't necessarily have a balance skill mechanic or a swim skill mechanic either, but that doesn't mean that balancing on a log or swimming in a torrent were handled as things to purely roleplay either.   For that matter, the game didn't have a real climb skill mechanic either, as only the thieves chance of climbing walls was specifically called out - and no chance assigned specifically to anyone else. What AD&D actually did in practice was ad hoc skill mechanics or chances of success whenever the DM felt one was called for.  So for a skill of dexterity you might find randomly a flat percentage chance of success if the PC tries, success if the player rolls his dex or less on a d20, a save versus rod/staff/wands, or some elaborate ad hoc completely situational means of computing probability of success based on every fiddly modifier that the writer could think of that might influence the outcome.   In the case of climbing a wall, dispute might arise over whether the chance of climbing as a non-thief ought to be zero, or whether it ought to be some fraction or portion of the chance of the thief, or whether in general because those were generally unworkable whether it was best to give a chance to climb the wall in addition to or cumulative with the chance a thief had.  In some cases, the wall was simply designated climbable simply because the plot required it and the rules didn't provide a good solution.Likewise, with regards to charisma you'd find things like percentage chances that monsters are hostile, or that NPC's will agree to bargains, perhaps even influenced by the loyalty modifiers to henchmen from the charisma chart.In absence of having a system for handing doubtful propositions, one was invented.  It just wasn't consistent or knowable, and often as not it wasn't playtested and basically screwed the players over with harsh chances of success.   That can even be seen in the games first attempt at quantifying non-combat character skill in the thief, whose initial skills in roguish matters are so unreliable that no skillful player would rely on them.  At best they can be considered a sort of saving throw, since failure to detect the trap, disarm the trap, climb the wall, and so forth often meant death.</blockquote>

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