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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pming" data-source="post: 7308300" data-attributes="member: 45197">Hiya!(I knew I should have explained the situation more... LOL!)I agree totally with you on this. A DM that doesn't want the players to 'win', who just says "No..because [insert reasons]" anytime he doesn't like it is the hallmark of one poopy DM. No argument from me on that.Anyway, I didn't write in all the  full 'story' because it would have taken too long. Suffice it to say, I didn't *actually* do that...I just used it to explain my predicament to the players. The point I was trying to make to them was that, yes, they can and DO have the power and resources to definitively 'change the world'...and totally annihilate the adventure/story at hand. For example, Tomb of Horrors. A few Earthquake spells, some Disintegration, maybe some Summoned elemental's, monsters/animals and Clairaudiance/voyance, and any number of other spells, would make short work of that adventure. The PC's, at that level, DO have the power to completely change the face of the world...in minutes. Literally. So why don't players do this all the time? It's not fun. It goes against the "expectations of playing a D&D game".What I did with my players was explain to them that, "logically" I *could* kill them all before they even know what hit 'em. If they EVER let ANYONE live that they encounter or who sees them taking out the lackeys of the bad guys...they're done for. At 15th level, a lot of bad guys (especially NPC types), can find out pretty much everything there is to know about the PC's in a few hours. Give the NPC a day or two and that's it for the PC's. The NPC(s) can perform "The List" to kill the PC's. And if they can't/don't kill the PC's...then next time its kill everyone around them. Their friends, family...hell, the town that they are staying at. I mean, the Temple of Elemental Evil could *easily* level Homlett, and kill/enslave/animate the entire population save about three or four "major" NPC's who might be able to escape.So, after explaining by 'fictitious example' to my players, they got it. They now all understand why high-level bad guys and good guys don't just "take over the world", and why commoners matter. Because if those good/bad guys in D&D bring all their might to bare...they may be the only ones left standing on the battlefield. The town they were trying to save and all the people in it are dead. The forest, burning. The rivers/streams, dry. Basically a blasted wasteland.As I said...the magical equivalent of a nuclear mutual assured destruction. So...we have uber-tough guys who don't go level the town personally. That's why they send their kobold army; kobolds will kill a lot and do a lot of damage, but they are't going to turn Homlett into a crater...so the uber-tough bad guy can then get the treasure, fear, respect, or whatever his goal was. I mean, what's the point in "winning" if there's nobody left around to sing of your victories, right?^_^Paul L. Ming</blockquote>

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