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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
Advice Wanted: 4e fan trying 5e
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<blockquote data-quote="pukunui" data-source="post: 6691513" data-attributes="member: 54629"><p>The gist of it is this: If you're grappled and prone, you can't stand up. (Because standing up requires that you use half your movement, but if you're grappled, your movement is 0.)</p><p></p><p>On top of that, if you're prone, you have disadvantage on your attacks, while enemies within 5 feet of you have advantage on theirs. Since both grappling and shoving are classed as "special melee attacks", you can grapple someone and knock them prone (or vice versa) on the same round if you're able to make more than one attack on your turn. Since very few monsters and NPCs in the MM have proficiency in either Athletics or Acrobatics, a character with a decent Strength and Expertise in Athletics will almost always succeed.</p><p></p><p>It's not quite as cheesy as the 3.5's tripping shenanigans, but it's still a powerful maneuver. For instance, in the 5e game I'm playing in, one of the other PCs is a fighter/rogue/wizard whose main gimmick is to use <em>enlarge</em> to make himself Large so he can grapple + prone up to Huge-size creatures. They almost always fail, much to the DM's frustration.</p><p></p><p>You don't even need the Grappler feat to make this to work, either. That's just icing on the cake.</p><p></p><p>I think two bards would work fine. First off, there are two subclasses for bard, so if each of you were to take a different one, that would give you some points of difference. However, even if you both took the College of Valor, there'd still be plenty of room for you to be unique. And regardless of subclass, you'd be doubling the amount of Bardic Inspiration being handed out to the party.</p><p></p><p>I'd also go so far as to say that the bard's spell list is robust enough that you could both pick different spells and thus not have much, if any, overlap there either.</p><p></p><p>That's the case with most classes, though. Even two devotion paladins can be fairly different. One might be sword-and-board, while the other uses a heavy weapon. One might focus on buffing the party, while the other focuses on smite spells. And so on.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pukunui, post: 6691513, member: 54629"] The gist of it is this: If you're grappled and prone, you can't stand up. (Because standing up requires that you use half your movement, but if you're grappled, your movement is 0.) On top of that, if you're prone, you have disadvantage on your attacks, while enemies within 5 feet of you have advantage on theirs. Since both grappling and shoving are classed as "special melee attacks", you can grapple someone and knock them prone (or vice versa) on the same round if you're able to make more than one attack on your turn. Since very few monsters and NPCs in the MM have proficiency in either Athletics or Acrobatics, a character with a decent Strength and Expertise in Athletics will almost always succeed. It's not quite as cheesy as the 3.5's tripping shenanigans, but it's still a powerful maneuver. For instance, in the 5e game I'm playing in, one of the other PCs is a fighter/rogue/wizard whose main gimmick is to use [I]enlarge[/I] to make himself Large so he can grapple + prone up to Huge-size creatures. They almost always fail, much to the DM's frustration. You don't even need the Grappler feat to make this to work, either. That's just icing on the cake. I think two bards would work fine. First off, there are two subclasses for bard, so if each of you were to take a different one, that would give you some points of difference. However, even if you both took the College of Valor, there'd still be plenty of room for you to be unique. And regardless of subclass, you'd be doubling the amount of Bardic Inspiration being handed out to the party. I'd also go so far as to say that the bard's spell list is robust enough that you could both pick different spells and thus not have much, if any, overlap there either. That's the case with most classes, though. Even two devotion paladins can be fairly different. One might be sword-and-board, while the other uses a heavy weapon. One might focus on buffing the party, while the other focuses on smite spells. And so on. [/QUOTE]
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