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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Sepulchrave II" data-source="post: 5132629" data-attributes="member: 4303">Well, she was drunk...Shomei is speculating that if the Adversary is (or was) originally of the Sovereign order - i.e. an emanation of Oronthon - then each of the eight (original) Sovereignties would logically have 8 Regents (reflections or avatars), and that the Kings of the Four Quarters in Avernus (Amaimon, Urien, Paimon and Ariton) are (or were) his surviving Regents.With regard to the seven 'regular' Sovereignties (those listed by tleilaxu), absolute differentiation between the Sovereignties and their Regents (and Oronthon) is meaningless. Because the nature of the Adversary is fundamentally to individuate, however, it makes sense (if you are Shomei, and drunk on kschiff) that the Adversary's Regents would also individuate (or perish).The 'Undivided Sphere' is the hypothetical identity of Oronthon and Unbeing "prior" to Oronthon's self-emanation, and Shomei would assert that by self-emanating, Oronthon is in fact laying the way for the Adversary to rebel; that the Adversary is in fact the most authentic manifestation of Oronthon by nature of simple self-identity (I am). This is an Irrenite argument.The Unmanifest (that which is beyond all ontological speculation) lies past this. This is ultimately the target of Saizhan. Shomei does not deny its Truth, but she has no particular interest in it; Shomei is rather anti-mystical.Er, does that make sense?They are both Pharamne (as are all Aeons). It's kind of complicated. Yes, it's a wyrm, but not Qematiel - although Qematiel presages it some way. Mechanically, this Pharamne happens to be a Perfected DvR20 great prismatic wyrm with 5 virtual age categories and 100 cleric levels.I have never entertained this idea, but apparently, yes. The Jovian tendency to organized religion would give way to Plutonic upheaval and the assimilation of notions of annihilation.This might place Wyre around 71,000 years ago (as I see no Illuminated amongst us). Perhaps Eadric's vision of fifty millennia was 2 great years - 51,500 years.Thinking about it, I'd be even more inclined to put Wyre 122,000 years ago in the Riss-Würm interglacial; this would coincide with Temenun's memory of the preceding glacial period, i.e. 4 3/4 great years ago.Coincidentally, Riss-Würm also translates as "Rupture-Dragon" in German...</blockquote>

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