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<blockquote data-quote="Lamoni" data-source="post: 1511990" data-attributes="member: 12680">I agree.&nbsp; Unfortunately there aren't any good fixes.&nbsp; You can try working within the rules and give a benefit to those that take a high charisma, but that doesn't really give any penalty to every other party member with a low charisma.&nbsp; I guess you could force the party to seperate and do their own individual diplomacy or gather information check, but that doesn't sound like a good solution.I hate how charisma's best quality is for the diplomacy skill.&nbsp; (Of course it offers greater benefits to a few classes, but they aren't universal benefits)&nbsp; Unfortunately with this skill, it is too subjective.&nbsp; You can either just roll the dice, take the outcome and eliminate a lot of good role playing, or you can ignore the dice and have a lot of good role playing, but undermine the skill.&nbsp; Or you can do a combination of the two, but it is hard to find a happy medium.&nbsp; A player that rolls a 38 on a diplomacy check, but says some pretty offending things to the NPC makes it hard to judge what should be done.&nbsp; Or someone who is very wise and came up with the best compromise ever, but rolled a 5 when presenting it to the NPC to convince them.&nbsp; It is difficult and therefore I hate how that is the best thing that Charisma provides.&nbsp; Also, there is no need to have more than one person in the party excel at this.How would the party do if only one person had an 18 Str and the other 3 had a Str of 8?&nbsp; They may end up doing well, but the people with an 8 str would notice some penalty associated with it.The solutions I have heard were to remove charisma completely... that might work, but I like having that part of a character defined by more than just role playing.&nbsp; Or to offer another benefit that Charisma provides.&nbsp; This makes sense to me, but I am not sure I like the idea about action points... and everything that is suggested becomes a house rule.That is one thing that I hope they change in 4th edition (No, I don't want 4th edition to come out any time soon).&nbsp; Unfortunately I don't have any good ideas for what exactly may be done.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Lamoni, post: 1511990, member: 12680"] I agree. Unfortunately there aren't any good fixes. You can try working within the rules and give a benefit to those that take a high charisma, but that doesn't really give any penalty to every other party member with a low charisma. I guess you could force the party to seperate and do their own individual diplomacy or gather information check, but that doesn't sound like a good solution. I hate how charisma's best quality is for the diplomacy skill. (Of course it offers greater benefits to a few classes, but they aren't universal benefits) Unfortunately with this skill, it is too subjective. You can either just roll the dice, take the outcome and eliminate a lot of good role playing, or you can ignore the dice and have a lot of good role playing, but undermine the skill. Or you can do a combination of the two, but it is hard to find a happy medium. A player that rolls a 38 on a diplomacy check, but says some pretty offending things to the NPC makes it hard to judge what should be done. Or someone who is very wise and came up with the best compromise ever, but rolled a 5 when presenting it to the NPC to convince them. It is difficult and therefore I hate how that is the best thing that Charisma provides. Also, there is no need to have more than one person in the party excel at this. How would the party do if only one person had an 18 Str and the other 3 had a Str of 8? They may end up doing well, but the people with an 8 str would notice some penalty associated with it. The solutions I have heard were to remove charisma completely... that might work, but I like having that part of a character defined by more than just role playing. Or to offer another benefit that Charisma provides. This makes sense to me, but I am not sure I like the idea about action points... and everything that is suggested becomes a house rule. That is one thing that I hope they change in 4th edition (No, I don't want 4th edition to come out any time soon). Unfortunately I don't have any good ideas for what exactly may be done. [/QUOTE]

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