Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Million Dollar TTRPG Crowdfunders
Most Anticipated Tabletop RPGs Of The Year
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
AI GMs
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Gorgon Zee" data-source="post: 9858542" data-attributes="member: 75787"><p>While evaluating creativity is hard, there seems to be a reasonable amount of evidence that an LLM can generate material that is perceived as more creative than that created by an average person for a given domain. However the issue is exactly what you have suggested above -- it's creative the same sort of way every time. So a group of people is more creative than a group of LLMs.</p><p></p><p>They are also terrible at handling multiple factors at once. So for linear adventures -- dungeon crawls, heists, that sort of thing -- they should be able to do a pretty good job, they really cannot handle a complex plot. I have had some success with prompts for specific scenes ("create one paragraph length outlines of a Pendragon encounter which could test a knight's chastity"). They were pretty similar, but they did the job and I could pick one out and it did save me some time. But when I asked it to summarize the plot of Agatha Christie's <em>Peril at End House</em> (which it did well) and then design a TTRPG adventure around that, it was beyond unusably bad; it had to keep track of 10 characters in both the Christie and derived work, create 5 scenes and around a dozen clues. It was just unable to do that in any way adequately.</p><p></p><p>And there are no innovations in the pipeline for AI that will improve this. They have run out of data to train on, the context windows are already sufficient to hold the info needed, and RAG or agent approaches don't help. It's not an issue with finding the right material -- I fed it all that. The issue is a fundamental inability to create complex output based on syntactic patterns only.</p><p></p><p>So, overall, my guess is that AIs can be trained to be as good as an above-average zero-prep GM. If that's the sort of game you like, you should have no issues. Feed it your sandbox world and set a direction and it will build the next next encounter for you one after another -- so long as, like in the original Star Trek TV show, you don't expect any long-term effects of your actions. But if you are looking for a game that has a more complex plot involving many game world factors together, I don't currently see a path for AIs to do that.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Gorgon Zee, post: 9858542, member: 75787"] While evaluating creativity is hard, there seems to be a reasonable amount of evidence that an LLM can generate material that is perceived as more creative than that created by an average person for a given domain. However the issue is exactly what you have suggested above -- it's creative the same sort of way every time. So a group of people is more creative than a group of LLMs. They are also terrible at handling multiple factors at once. So for linear adventures -- dungeon crawls, heists, that sort of thing -- they should be able to do a pretty good job, they really cannot handle a complex plot. I have had some success with prompts for specific scenes ("create one paragraph length outlines of a Pendragon encounter which could test a knight's chastity"). They were pretty similar, but they did the job and I could pick one out and it did save me some time. But when I asked it to summarize the plot of Agatha Christie's [I]Peril at End House[/I] (which it did well) and then design a TTRPG adventure around that, it was beyond unusably bad; it had to keep track of 10 characters in both the Christie and derived work, create 5 scenes and around a dozen clues. It was just unable to do that in any way adequately. And there are no innovations in the pipeline for AI that will improve this. They have run out of data to train on, the context windows are already sufficient to hold the info needed, and RAG or agent approaches don't help. It's not an issue with finding the right material -- I fed it all that. The issue is a fundamental inability to create complex output based on syntactic patterns only. So, overall, my guess is that AIs can be trained to be as good as an above-average zero-prep GM. If that's the sort of game you like, you should have no issues. Feed it your sandbox world and set a direction and it will build the next next encounter for you one after another -- so long as, like in the original Star Trek TV show, you don't expect any long-term effects of your actions. But if you are looking for a game that has a more complex plot involving many game world factors together, I don't currently see a path for AIs to do that. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
AI GMs
Top