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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Spatula" data-source="post: 4078891" data-attributes="member: 2198">Sure, and I have big problems with the expected wealth guidelines myself (though said problems do not include NPCs crafting items for PCs in exchange for goods or services).  But complaining about "magic item shops" as being a problem in 3e is disingenuous, because in no way does 3e say, "there are magic item shops."  That some DMs have resorted to treating the DMG as a player equipment list is either a convenience or a tragedy, depending on your game style, but ultimately that rests on the DMs in question.  The presence, or lack thereof, of magic marts is ultimately more of a taste issue than a system issue, anyway, and 4e isn't going to "fix" that for you.(also, from what has been said by the designers regarding magic items in 4e, there are still assumptions that players have items of a certain strength by a certain level - the overall strength, and quantity, of the items has just been lessened)So if my players can't buy an apparatus of kwalish, balance goes out the window?  Sorry, you keep saying "any" item but that's clearly not true.Now, if you're going to make dramatic changes to player wealth, that will have a dramatic effect on their power level (I'm not sure it really affects game balance per se).  That means you'd need to eyeball a monster's strength before tossing one at the party, without blindly relying on its CR.  Which as a crotchety grognard, you should be used to - just like the old days before we even knew what CR was! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />  You have to do this to a certain extent anyway, as the CR system is far from perfect - there's too many variables in party composition, for one thing (undead vs party without cleric, for example).  On the flip side, minor changes to player wealth will result in minor changes to their power level, and a correspondingly minor disturbance in the predictive effects of CR on encounters.But lets say that, for example, you prohibit the sale of magic items.  Now all unwanted loot effectively becomes deadweight that has no effect on the party's actual wealth level (since they're not using it and they can't liquidate it).  If you wanted to keep them going along at the expected guidelines, you simply throw in an extra amount of gp equal to half the value of the unwanted items into their haul(s).  Or you don't, and force the players to find some use for those items ("Fear my army of squirrel spies!").If you prohibit them from buying items, then they either have to rely on what you give them, or craft the desired items themselves.  Since you're the DM, and you decide what treasure they get, how much downtime they have, etc., I don't see the dramatic effect on game balance.  Give them what you want them to have, within the wealth guidelines if that's important to you, or give them the time to craft items.  Or do both.  You're the DM - what the world offers up to the PCs, and how it is offered, is up to you.Nope, the game expects the PCs to have a certain gp amount's worth of items.  Again, how they get those items is under the DM's control, as it always has been.Well, how could they go about selling the items if it was clear there was no market for them?That's fine, that's how you prefer to play, but the published adventures from TSR certainly did not support that worldview.  And that's what a lot of people were weaned on.  Perhaps if MerricB is here he can dig up his (? I think it was his) analysis of the magic item glut from the official AD&D modules.</blockquote>

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