Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Aim and Feint actions (and Expanding Cunning Action)
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Xeviat" data-source="post: 7639579" data-attributes="member: 57494"><p>Hi everyone. Right now, I'm working on an expansion to the skill system. I'm going to be building tables of example DCs (still following the very easy to nearly impossible structure, just giving examples for each), as well as adding actions to each of the skills. While participating in threads about TWFing, it was pointed out to me that the rogue's two weapon fighting very much mirrors advantage on ranged hiding rogues, and I got an idea for two new skill actions: Aim and Feint.</p><p></p><p>We can already use Stealth to hide, which then grants advantage on an attack against someone you are hidden from.</p><p></p><p><strong><u>Aim</u></strong></p><p>Through careful study of a target, you can seek out vulnerable targets or less defended angles of attack. When you take the Aim action, you make a Wisdom (Perception) check against the target's AC or the target's Charisma (Deception) roll. If successful, you gain advantage on your next attack roll against the target, provided it is made before the end of your next turn. Like with a readied action, you are considered to be concentrating as if concentrating on a concentration spell, and your Aim action can be lost if you fail a concentration check.</p><p></p><p><strong><u>Feint</u></strong></p><p>With a deceptive flourish or a telegraphed attack that is changed at the last second, you can trick your opponent into opening their guard. When you take the Feint action in melee reach of a target, you make a Charisma (Deception) check against the target's AC or the target's Wisdom (Insight) roll. If successful, you gain advantage on your next attack roll against the target, provided it is made before the end of your next turn. (I might allow ranged feints if you make a leading shot or an attack with a ranged attack cantrip to lead someone to dodge in a certain way)</p><p></p><p>I'm considering allowing these to be used with an attack, not just a full action. This would even allow Extra Attackers to get mileage out of the crossbow; give up your first attack to aim, and then attack with the crossbow, since you can only make one attack anyway.</p><p></p><p>Both of these are like using the "Aid" action on yourself. They are also like using the True Strike cantrip. In both cases, the trade off is the required ability check. This is similar to how the Heal skill can allow you to mimic the "Spare the Dying" cantrip, just with a check. Against the baseline ACs, a proficient user will have a 50-60% chance of succeeding these checks, and an expert will have a 70-80% chance (unless they're also pushing their Cha or Wis scores, in which case it will get better).</p><p></p><p>I then want to expand Cunning Action, to allow for Aim and Feint actions to be taken as a bonus action. I believe this will expand the optimal combat rogue options to include ranged attackers who aren't stealth focused and melee attackers who aren't TWFing focused.</p><p></p><p>I crunched the numbers between a rogue using two shortswords and thus using their bonus action to make an off-hand attack against a rapier wielder using their off-hand to feint. If they succeed at their feints 85% of the time (give or take a bit), their damage will equal the expected damage of a two-weapon fighting rogue, though there is a trade off because the twfing rogue can save their offhand attack after they see if they hit or miss.</p><p></p><p>I also wonder what it would be like to allow a tanky rogue to use Dodge as a bonus action; the monk has to pay for this with ki, though, so I'm inclined to say no.</p><p></p><p>What do you think?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Xeviat, post: 7639579, member: 57494"] Hi everyone. Right now, I'm working on an expansion to the skill system. I'm going to be building tables of example DCs (still following the very easy to nearly impossible structure, just giving examples for each), as well as adding actions to each of the skills. While participating in threads about TWFing, it was pointed out to me that the rogue's two weapon fighting very much mirrors advantage on ranged hiding rogues, and I got an idea for two new skill actions: Aim and Feint. We can already use Stealth to hide, which then grants advantage on an attack against someone you are hidden from. [b][u]Aim[/u][/b] Through careful study of a target, you can seek out vulnerable targets or less defended angles of attack. When you take the Aim action, you make a Wisdom (Perception) check against the target's AC or the target's Charisma (Deception) roll. If successful, you gain advantage on your next attack roll against the target, provided it is made before the end of your next turn. Like with a readied action, you are considered to be concentrating as if concentrating on a concentration spell, and your Aim action can be lost if you fail a concentration check. [b][u]Feint[/u][/b] With a deceptive flourish or a telegraphed attack that is changed at the last second, you can trick your opponent into opening their guard. When you take the Feint action in melee reach of a target, you make a Charisma (Deception) check against the target's AC or the target's Wisdom (Insight) roll. If successful, you gain advantage on your next attack roll against the target, provided it is made before the end of your next turn. (I might allow ranged feints if you make a leading shot or an attack with a ranged attack cantrip to lead someone to dodge in a certain way) I'm considering allowing these to be used with an attack, not just a full action. This would even allow Extra Attackers to get mileage out of the crossbow; give up your first attack to aim, and then attack with the crossbow, since you can only make one attack anyway. Both of these are like using the "Aid" action on yourself. They are also like using the True Strike cantrip. In both cases, the trade off is the required ability check. This is similar to how the Heal skill can allow you to mimic the "Spare the Dying" cantrip, just with a check. Against the baseline ACs, a proficient user will have a 50-60% chance of succeeding these checks, and an expert will have a 70-80% chance (unless they're also pushing their Cha or Wis scores, in which case it will get better). I then want to expand Cunning Action, to allow for Aim and Feint actions to be taken as a bonus action. I believe this will expand the optimal combat rogue options to include ranged attackers who aren't stealth focused and melee attackers who aren't TWFing focused. I crunched the numbers between a rogue using two shortswords and thus using their bonus action to make an off-hand attack against a rapier wielder using their off-hand to feint. If they succeed at their feints 85% of the time (give or take a bit), their damage will equal the expected damage of a two-weapon fighting rogue, though there is a trade off because the twfing rogue can save their offhand attack after they see if they hit or miss. I also wonder what it would be like to allow a tanky rogue to use Dodge as a bonus action; the monk has to pay for this with ki, though, so I'm inclined to say no. What do you think? [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Aim and Feint actions (and Expanding Cunning Action)
Top