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Message: <blockquote data-quote="farscapesg1" data-source="post: 2295146" data-attributes="member: 15234">Personally, I miss the old days of playing 2nd edition without any sort of battle grid or miniatures.  However, with all the extra options of AOO, Flanking, Charging, etc. the use of miniatures is almost required (unless you have DM that is great at detailing everything).I do have a problem with the idea that a spellcaster must make a check to place a spell where they want it.  If they need to make a check, that is why a ranged touch attack is for some spells.  Comparing it to other classes abilities that require rolls doesn't work, IMO.  That is why the victims of the spell get a saving throw.  The saving throw is equal to the attack roll of a fighter.  If you want to make spellcasters make attack rolls to place an area effect spell, then you should make a fighter make a Dexterity check to make sure he is still within reach of his opponent after making an attack.  Going with the idea that the combat is fluid and a character in a 5 ft space is constantly moving and might take damage from an area effect spell that hits the opponent his is in hand-to-hand combat with, the same thing needs to be taken into consideration with his attack.  In other words, during the fluid movements of battle, he may be just out of reach of his opponent when he makes that attack roll, and even if he would hit, his reach is just not long enough.What, don't want to look at it that way?  Then what you are saying is that spellcasters need to be penalized just because they have area effect attacks that the warrior (or any melee character) doesn't have.  What about whirlwind attack then?  That is an area effect (any square within reach of the character).  Why is it that the warrior can choose exactly the opponents he wants to attack in the area, but the spellcaster needs to be hampered?  What about the archer trying to hit something that is 100+ feet away?  He is allowed to hit the target with just a single attack roll?What about ranged attacks against opponents in melee combat?  Do those of you that require a spellcaster to make an Intelligence or Spellcraft check to hit an exact spot also use rules that you have the chance of hitting a friend in melee with your target?The rules are already there.  If the Cleric wants to call down a Flame Strike, he can specify exactly where that happens.  The same works for Wizards with Fireball, Grease, Web, etc..  Adding an extra check to cast these spells is a slap in the face to caster characters.</blockquote>

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