Al-Qadim: Your input wanted!

[Quickleaf]

I just became a community supporter today, so Yaaah!

How do Al-Qadim fans feel about the setting getting a 4e update?

Would your turn and run screaming, would you prefer to see it done with the Pathfinder RPG, would you get it in a heartbeat? What would you want to see done, or approached differently? Any areas or adventure concepts you'd want to see explored? Are there sacred cows to the setting that you'd hate to see changed? Special requests?

Your input is wanted! A few of us have undertaken the rather massive task of converting Al-Qadim to the 4th edition, and we want to know where the rest of you stand.

 

[Shemeska]

If the setting flavor and atmosphere remained intact rather than having the PoL tropes and setting material forced upon it - just using 4e rules without forcing a homogenization of fluff, sure.

But if it's going to get trainwrecked and cobbled together with parts of 4e's core setting, like a drooling, shambling frakenstein's monster of original and grafted parts when all is said and done, I'd rather it not happen. In that event make an Arabian themed PoL setting and let it stand on its own rather than junk Al-Qadim in the process to hijack its name.

The actual ruleset means little to me, 4e is just as valid as 3e or 2e or a deck of cards and a ouija board. They shouldn't dictate the flavor or change established flavor though - they should support it. Consistency and continuity of a setting's flavor and fluffy bits (the parts of a setting that attract me in the first place) are what matters. Trashing a setting to fit in perfectly with a quasi-setting used in the core rules is bad design.

 

[AdmundfortGeographer]

If the setting flavor and atmosphere remained intact rather than having the PoL tropes and setting material forced upon it - just using 4e rules without forcing a homogenization of fluff, sure.

Huh, IMO Al-Qadim if chalk full of Points of Light-isms. One particular difference might be that in Al-Qadim the light (urban settings) are quite a bit brighter than default 4e, but the darkness is equally dark and pervasive.

 

[ProfessorCirno]

If the setting flavor and atmosphere remained intact rather than having the PoL tropes and setting material forced upon it - just using 4e rules without forcing a homogenization of fluff, sure.

But if it's going to get trainwrecked and cobbled together with parts of 4e's core setting, like a drooling, shambling frakenstein's monster of original and grafted parts when all is said and done, I'd rather it not happen. In that event make an Arabian themed PoL setting and let it stand on its own rather than junk Al-Qadim in the process to hijack its name.

The actual ruleset means little to me, 4e is just as valid as 3e or 2e or a deck of cards and a ouija board. They shouldn't dictate the flavor or change established flavor though - they should support it. Consistency and continuity of a setting's flavor and fluffy bits (the parts of a setting that attract me in the first place) are what matters. Trashing a setting to fit in perfectly with a quasi-setting used in the core rules is bad design.

Pretty much this.

 

[Thunderfoot]

I'm not sure - I love the setting, but had a hard time even integrating it in 3E - 4E is probably way out there, mostly because Al Qadim (more than any other setting) pushed the kits concept. It wasn't that it wasn't (or isn't for that matter) possible, it just takes work that I could put into it and was not supported by WotC.

Al Qadim and Maztica for that matter were the TSR Forgotten Realms children that got left at the orphanage when the rest of the family moved. Oriental Adventures were brought along and then abandoned in 3E - not much left of the realms to abort is there? I'm not really sure ANY of the old stuff can be successfully integrated into the new system without some amount of "hmmmm, not quite" slipping in. But that just my opinion, YMMV.

 

[Quickleaf]

If the setting flavor and atmosphere remained intact rather than having the PoL tropes and setting material forced upon it - just using 4e rules without forcing a homogenization of fluff, sure.

I'm with you on most of that, Shemeska, especially no forced homogenization. To me a campaign setting is valuable because of the strong theme and atmosphere it evokes different from the core rules or other settings. I have a question about the setting flavor and atmosphere of AL-QADIM: What is the essential quality of AL-QADIM that needs to be preserved?

Huh, IMO Al-Qadim if chalk full of Points of Light-isms. One particular difference might be that in Al-Qadim the light (urban settings) are quite a bit brighter than default 4e, but the darkness is equally dark and pervasive.

Eric, I tend to agree with you, but even many city-states had wicked secrets lurking in the backgrounds. Raiders seemed to be in every adventure, desert survival was difficult, shipwrecks were used to steer the story... It seems to me very much like a points of light settings as it was presented in the boxed sets, just there happened to be an empire in the background.

I'm not sure - I love the setting, but had a hard time even integrating it in 3E - 4E is probably way out there, mostly because Al Qadim (more than any other setting) pushed the kits concept. It wasn't that it wasn't (or isn't for that matter) possible, it just takes work that I could put into it and was not supported by WotC.

I've interpreted kits as builds. I hate the name "build", but I've managed to inject lots of roleplaying elements into them. It's worked quite well.

I'm not really sure ANY of the old stuff can be successfully integrated into the new system without some amount of "hmmmm, not quite" slipping in. But that just my opinion, YMMV.

Thanks for mentioning that. Incongruity is exactly what I'm trying to avoid. I want the AL-QADIM conversion to present a tightly woven concept where everything really jives together.

 

[Knightfall]

Al Qadim and Maztica for that matter were the TSR Forgotten Realms children that got left at the orphanage when the rest of the family moved. Oriental Adventures were brought along and then abandoned in 3E - not much left of the realms to abort is there? I'm not really sure ANY of the old stuff can be successfully integrated into the new system without some amount of "hmmmm, not quite" slipping in. But that just my opinion, YMMV.

The question becomes, does Al-Qadim still exist in 4e version of the Forgotten Realms? Is it mentioned in the FRCG? Or did it get removed from Toril like Maztica was?

If it gets revised for 4e, perhaps it could be seperated from the Realms entirely.

 

[Quickleaf]

The question becomes, does Al-Qadim still exist in 4e version of the Forgotten Realms? Is it mentioned in the FRCG? Or did it get removed from Toril like Maztica was?

If it gets revised for 4e, perhaps it could be seperated from the Realms entirely.

Well, I posted about Al-Qadim in the "Other Published Worlds" forum at Wizards, and my post was moved to "Realmslore". Just sayin'

 

[Mouseferatu]

Well, I posted about Al-Qadim in the "Other Published Worlds" forum at Wizards, and my post was moved to "Realmslore". Just sayin'

Guh. Really?

Got nothing against the FR as a setting. And in fact, I like the new version a lot better than the old.

But damn it, AQ is its own setting. It doesn't need to be, and shouldn't be canonically linked to any other. Anyone who wants to make it "the land across the sea" from their own setting can do so, but it really ought to stand on its own.

 

[Quickleaf]

But damn it, AQ is its own setting. It doesn't need to be, and shouldn't be canonically linked to any other. Anyone who wants to make it "the land across the sea" from their own setting can do so, but it really ought to stand on its own.

While I share your perspective, I also understand the other side. Some FR players feel that having Kara-Tur, Al-Qadim, etc expand the scope of their campaign; and that having an official European analogue makes Zakhara all the more rich. I think there's a middle-ground: Present AQ as contained with minimal references to the rest of the Realms, maybe a page about how to use Zakhara in FR/Eberron, and that's it.