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Message: <blockquote data-quote="King_Mushi" data-source="post: 5582076" data-attributes="member: 6677475">Good points, all of them.However I'll counter that in actual practice I find it hard to believe there would be substantial abuse.What I mean is, when I try to put a working scenario where this would be abused, I have trouble.   I can't imagine more than 1-2 people in the party using them consistently, and if so they're gonna be behind in the +hit unless they're using the quality stuff.  Not to mention penalty to damage.  So they're now behind in both attack and damage for some versatility... Well if that's what they want that sounds fair to me...  Isn't that what PMC is?Also, which classes in today's 4e don't already have controlling abilities?  In my party every player has several abilities which can either blind, daze, mark, push, pull, stun, add penalties, add ongoing damage, etc...  There's a few oddities in the Alchemy volatiles, but not enough to say that they overpower what any regular character can do without them.Lastly, you need a free hand to operate this stuff.  Is the fighter going to keep a free hand so he can do this?  Or the ranger?  The classes 'most' suited to alchemy are casters, who normally have a free hand, but they already have tons of controlling abilities.  Now you could say that alchemical ammunition could be used by rangers... but are they going to NOT use their at-will/encounter/daily plus their bow property (I'll skip ammo property) in place of a minor ability?In my campaign we enforce some ammo limits, usually to about 2 quivers/bolts per character.  Normally during a short rest they can retrieve their arrows 100%, except for magic/alchemical which are expended, or if they're fighting in areas which would prevent it.  This factor at least for us, makes that type of ammo more valuable, since if you use it you're absolutely out a piece of ammo.  We are able to purchase magic ammo, but only from special dealers so again we have some limits on acquiring them.Overall though, I'd wager if you gave out free items to the whole party at 1/2 level to hit bonus, maybe 1 character will figure a way to implement it consistently.  The rest would toss one or two every now and then, then realize they have much better things in their own power arsenal.  Again that's just a guess, the only facts I have on this is the copious vials of unused holy water that our party likes to keep safe (and unused) in their rucksacks.Also, I agree completely that magic ammo (and alch items) are broken as they are today.  One is too powerful, the other is not powerful enough.  All my suggestion was trying to do was level the playing field.</blockquote>

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