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Message: <blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 5584312" data-attributes="member: 82106">Nothing wrong with it, but it is a rather limited use thing, you can't really seriously say "Alchemical items are fine because this one (ok 2) race(s) can get a bonus to use them". It is something to consider, but see below.I am probably being unclear:When I say buffs I mean buffs to attacks or similar things that enhance the party's attacks in some way. When I say debuffs I mean debuffs to the monsters which favor the players, which are fairly close to the same thing, but there is an important difference:Virtually all buffs to attacks will NOT WORK with Alchemical items. If the buff is to the character it has no effect, the item is making the attack, not the PC. If the buff is a general party-wide buff it is ambiguous. Again the item is making the attack. Is an item a member of the party? Is it eligible to receive these kinds of buffs? This hasn't ever been clarified. I'll grant that in general this will be the way it is going to be run, but the point stands in general, AT LEAST half of all buffs are not useful. Debuff to the monsters OTOH are going to be more useful. Now, there's a flip side to this. A debuff to the PC won't affect his alchemical item attacks. That could be useful in some limited situations. So overall Alchemical items mostly on balance just miss out on a subset of buffs. Still those are a common type of buff and it can be problematic. It certainly doesn't contribute to the functionality of these items.Yeah, I just don't believe that a 'backup' type item is something you would want to rate feats, items, themes, and PPs much on. People have much better things to spend those on than "hey, maybe in the 3 cases per tier when I'm in this odd situation I'm going to use Alchemy, so I better spend a feat on it..." People already jealously horde bonuses of all types that work for them all the time and constantly wish they had more. Very few players are going to drop the Alchemist theme on their character or grab Alchemy Gloves for that one oddball situation.So I agree with you about the times that these things are used. I just observe that those are not situations people are going to spend ANY resources optimizing, even if you're a warforged or a shard mind you're quite unlikely to get a launcher. Obviously there is going to be the guy that will make his character an optimized alchemist, but that's a bit of a different situation (and as alchemy items are now not really a very effective option, though fun). So I still say at least make the things pretty accurate, commensurate with other 'backup weapon' type attacks. Consider, a fighter can toss a Javelin and at level one will get +6 (with an 18 STR), or toss some alchemical item at +3. It may be worth it, but then remember that the Javelin marks and costs almost nothing to throw, an alchemical fire or whatnot is less accurate, doesn't mark, may miss out on some buffs, and on top of all that costs a modest amount of gold.</blockquote>

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