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Message: <blockquote data-quote="UngeheuerLich" data-source="post: 6819183" data-attributes="member: 59057">I think you just don't understand... You won't get a single attack for screaming. Why should you? You just screamed... ridiculous to think you are surprising anyone screaming loud...No. Not 3 attacks or spells before anyone can act. In most cases it ia impossible to gain an extra attack out of it. You need to have a specific trigger and you need to have surprise... i.e. people are unaware that combat will happen. And you really need to be stealthed in  a way that you can attack.Another example. An invisible stalker lurks around. You try to sneak past him. The stalker was hidden. You happen to run by him. Would you deny him an opportunity attack? (no alert feat).So combat may start with an invisible fist in your face.Would you roll initiative just for the invisible hidden stalker being around? Would the creature wandering through the dungeon suddenly hold still for 6 seconds, just because the invisible stalker surprised him?I would rule something like first attack goes to the stalker as his reactin. Roll a perception check first to see of you are noticing that swing and you get another chance not being surprised and you may immediately react. Then proceed with normal rounds.That really sounds better than I sneak around... oh I suddenly can't move anymore... some creature I did not notice is around (notice: still assume no alert feat).The initiative rules in the PHB clearly declare that combat starts with the first sign of clombat. Usually some creatures moving in or a creature shooting an arrow.If PCs are the first to shoot. That is ok for me. If enemies really have no clue that the will be shot soon, that is their fault.I do really miss the readiness saves from the playtest. That would easily solve my problem. Alert would just make you auto succeed on them. You can still be sneaked upon and shot at. But you can always easily react.My outliers were ridiculous by choice. I just wanted to show that there could be difficult cases where it may be ridiculous to assume the character can always magically notice something.Also with your argumebtation chances are that you with alert react and really don't know what exactly to react to. Your first action may be either looking what is around making a perception check and being hit hard by the person you notice, or you may ready an action against something losing your secondary attacks and so on. Is my solution better than yours? Probably not. But there are cases where I prefer my solution. And yes probably 1% of all encounters...</blockquote>

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