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Alien Character Mindsets: Elves should be pretty conservative about almost everything.
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<blockquote data-quote="Steampunkette" data-source="post: 8683539" data-attributes="member: 6796468"><p>Oh, I like this. I like this a lot. </p><p></p><p>Elves exist in worlds with humans. And orcs. Halflings. Gnomes. Every D&D race. They don't get to be absolutely isolated from other cultures, and the point is that those cultures would be dizzyingly swift to change by comparison to elves. The entire point is that compared to humans, Elves should be stuck under the weight of time, of personal history on a scale no human can ever actually experience. </p><p></p><p>A human who plants a palm tree may never enjoy the coconut, while an elf can plant a dozen, each one after eating the last, and enjoy them all.</p><p></p><p>(Coco De Mer takes 20-40 years to flower, and the coconut takes 6-10 years to ripen)</p><p></p><p>Yes, an elf that was -utterly- blind to the world around themself beyond an idea of the past would be maladaptive. SOME adaptation is needed just to deal with changes to environment and major societal advances in technology...</p><p></p><p>But also... uh... Look at Forgotten Realms.</p><p></p><p>It has been at the same High Fantasy Quasi-Medieval Borderline Renaissance technological level for about 3,000 years. So I think they'd be mostly okay. What they would be out of touch with is social customs of the younger races that advance faster than they do.</p><p></p><p>Fair point. Very fair point. Though that particular example was tied up in the "Modern America Setting" and constrained by our systems which, y'know, favor the endless personal acquisition of wealth.</p><p></p><p>Ea-Nasir has some complaints about his copper business on tablets written in cuneiform that might kind of undermine that idea... It's not the -modern- idea of capitalism, but the exchange of goods and services, the idea of individuals owning means of production, the division of labor largely determined by class, etc are way older than Adam Smith. S'why he wrote about it and codified the idea, but it had already been happening before him.</p><p></p><p>Debt, too. In which the wealthy lent land, resources, or straight up cash to others and expected prompt repayment with interest. And in the Code of Hammurabi there were lines about how debts were to be repaid and -whether- a debt needed to be repaid if circumstances made it impossible.</p><p></p><p>It may not have been named "Capitalism", yet... but what's in a name? A rose by any other would smell as sweet.</p><p></p><p>Physical money is just a representation of value as a form of abstraction. The actual source of the wealth comes from resource control and control of means of production. So long as the elf owns the mine or the forest or the farmland the money they use to represent the resources that are produced isn't disadvantageous at all.</p><p></p><p>Wealth and estate -can- be taken by force. S'why kingdoms fall and empires crumble. But whether that wealth is land, gemstones, coins, paper, or floating numbers the same remains true. And unless the elves are willing to destroy the systems of other races in the worlds (Humans gonna human after all) and have religious pogroms and so forth... not a lot to be done about it.</p><p></p><p>Also in 99% of campaign settings GODS ARE REAL so whether you like their religion or not is kinda irrelevant since they can drop lightning, plagues, or curses on you for getting uppity.</p><p></p><p>You're not wrong. You're not wrong at all.</p><p></p><p>I'm not saying that modern American Elves 300 years old who grew up in the colonies would be openly outright racist and sexist and get scandalized by a woman wearing a skirt short enough to see her calves.</p><p></p><p>I'm saying that what they have experienced, the full breadth of it, should be considered in roleplaying them. And while some of it, like Firearms being a constantly advancing thing, is really important... some of it, like Slang or what is the most current political debate about people's rights or how to use an ad blocker to keep malware from getting downloaded...</p><p></p><p>That stuff gets lost in the "Minutiae" pile of irrelevancies for someone who has seen -so much- change in regards to all those things.</p><p></p><p>Because what weighs more on a 300 year old mind? Whether 8-Tracks or the Civil Rights Movement? Which one are they more likely to remember and care about? PROBABLY not 8-tracks...</p><p></p><p>But they might complain about the changeover from Vinyl because records were around a lot longer than Laserdiscs were.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Steampunkette, post: 8683539, member: 6796468"] Oh, I like this. I like this a lot. Elves exist in worlds with humans. And orcs. Halflings. Gnomes. Every D&D race. They don't get to be absolutely isolated from other cultures, and the point is that those cultures would be dizzyingly swift to change by comparison to elves. The entire point is that compared to humans, Elves should be stuck under the weight of time, of personal history on a scale no human can ever actually experience. A human who plants a palm tree may never enjoy the coconut, while an elf can plant a dozen, each one after eating the last, and enjoy them all. (Coco De Mer takes 20-40 years to flower, and the coconut takes 6-10 years to ripen) Yes, an elf that was -utterly- blind to the world around themself beyond an idea of the past would be maladaptive. SOME adaptation is needed just to deal with changes to environment and major societal advances in technology... But also... uh... Look at Forgotten Realms. It has been at the same High Fantasy Quasi-Medieval Borderline Renaissance technological level for about 3,000 years. So I think they'd be mostly okay. What they would be out of touch with is social customs of the younger races that advance faster than they do. Fair point. Very fair point. Though that particular example was tied up in the "Modern America Setting" and constrained by our systems which, y'know, favor the endless personal acquisition of wealth. Ea-Nasir has some complaints about his copper business on tablets written in cuneiform that might kind of undermine that idea... It's not the -modern- idea of capitalism, but the exchange of goods and services, the idea of individuals owning means of production, the division of labor largely determined by class, etc are way older than Adam Smith. S'why he wrote about it and codified the idea, but it had already been happening before him. Debt, too. In which the wealthy lent land, resources, or straight up cash to others and expected prompt repayment with interest. And in the Code of Hammurabi there were lines about how debts were to be repaid and -whether- a debt needed to be repaid if circumstances made it impossible. It may not have been named "Capitalism", yet... but what's in a name? A rose by any other would smell as sweet. Physical money is just a representation of value as a form of abstraction. The actual source of the wealth comes from resource control and control of means of production. So long as the elf owns the mine or the forest or the farmland the money they use to represent the resources that are produced isn't disadvantageous at all. Wealth and estate -can- be taken by force. S'why kingdoms fall and empires crumble. But whether that wealth is land, gemstones, coins, paper, or floating numbers the same remains true. And unless the elves are willing to destroy the systems of other races in the worlds (Humans gonna human after all) and have religious pogroms and so forth... not a lot to be done about it. Also in 99% of campaign settings GODS ARE REAL so whether you like their religion or not is kinda irrelevant since they can drop lightning, plagues, or curses on you for getting uppity. You're not wrong. You're not wrong at all. I'm not saying that modern American Elves 300 years old who grew up in the colonies would be openly outright racist and sexist and get scandalized by a woman wearing a skirt short enough to see her calves. I'm saying that what they have experienced, the full breadth of it, should be considered in roleplaying them. And while some of it, like Firearms being a constantly advancing thing, is really important... some of it, like Slang or what is the most current political debate about people's rights or how to use an ad blocker to keep malware from getting downloaded... That stuff gets lost in the "Minutiae" pile of irrelevancies for someone who has seen -so much- change in regards to all those things. Because what weighs more on a 300 year old mind? Whether 8-Tracks or the Civil Rights Movement? Which one are they more likely to remember and care about? PROBABLY not 8-tracks... But they might complain about the changeover from Vinyl because records were around a lot longer than Laserdiscs were. [/QUOTE]
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