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<blockquote data-quote="tomBitonti" data-source="post: 6650630" data-attributes="member: 13107">We seem to get back to the more basic question of whether life (as we know it, or not far from it) exists elsewhere in the universe.A caution re: &quot;infinite universe&quot;.&nbsp; If I encode the universe state in a light cone as large as my lifetime as a number (which seems doable in theory, even though it would be a big number), and I construct the irrational number which is the sequence of all natural numbers lined up in a row, then apply my decoder to each of the numbers in that sequence, I will eventually decode all possible &quot;lifetime states&quot;.&nbsp; This would be the equivalent of decoding all possible instants of all possible outcomes of my life (and of any other life with a similar lifespan), with all of the data that represents those outcomes in just one irrational number.&nbsp; If we have an infinite universe, that universe might enumerate all possible outcomes in a similar fashion.Also, &quot;400 billion&quot; isn't all that big when you compare to the size of the universe, which something like 10^70 orders of magnitude.&nbsp; (Not entirely sure of that number, but its a lot bigger than 10^12.)But, intelligence may be badly miss-understood.&nbsp; I'm pretty well convinced that folks generally don't understand the tie between self-awareness and decision making.&nbsp; For example, the brain probably has to do a lot of work to compensate for latency between perception and decision making.A curious argument which ties evolution and teleology: The universe seems to by physically constructed to give rise to intelligence as a side effect of systems such as the earth-moon-sun environment, where you have energy pushed into an iterative system (the chemical goo on the earth's surface), which is allowed to accumulate structure then pushed across region boundaries (say, climate change in old Africa).&nbsp; Intelligence may be a probable outcome given the right physical circumstances.&nbsp; Or course, that takes us back to a question of the likely hood of the circumstances.Thanks!TomB</blockquote>

[QUOTE="tomBitonti, post: 6650630, member: 13107"] We seem to get back to the more basic question of whether life (as we know it, or not far from it) exists elsewhere in the universe. A caution re: "infinite universe". If I encode the universe state in a light cone as large as my lifetime as a number (which seems doable in theory, even though it would be a big number), and I construct the irrational number which is the sequence of all natural numbers lined up in a row, then apply my decoder to each of the numbers in that sequence, I will eventually decode all possible "lifetime states". This would be the equivalent of decoding all possible instants of all possible outcomes of my life (and of any other life with a similar lifespan), with all of the data that represents those outcomes in just one irrational number. If we have an infinite universe, that universe might enumerate all possible outcomes in a similar fashion. Also, "400 billion" isn't all that big when you compare to the size of the universe, which something like 10^70 orders of magnitude. (Not entirely sure of that number, but its a lot bigger than 10^12.) But, intelligence may be badly miss-understood. I'm pretty well convinced that folks generally don't understand the tie between self-awareness and decision making. For example, the brain probably has to do a lot of work to compensate for latency between perception and decision making. A curious argument which ties evolution and teleology: The universe seems to by physically constructed to give rise to intelligence as a side effect of systems such as the earth-moon-sun environment, where you have energy pushed into an iterative system (the chemical goo on the earth's surface), which is allowed to accumulate structure then pushed across region boundaries (say, climate change in old Africa). Intelligence may be a probable outcome given the right physical circumstances. Or course, that takes us back to a question of the likely hood of the circumstances. Thanks! TomB [/QUOTE]

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