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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Kahuna Burger" data-source="post: 3611196" data-attributes="member: 8439">To sidetrack the sidetrack, this is assigning a bit of a strawman to allignment using games, I'd say. In every game I've been in that used allignment, player can and do "just play". They take actions in character and then expereince the consequences of those actions. In a game with allignment those consequences include possible metaphysical effects. Saying that you need to remove those effects so you can "just play" is to my expereince as silly as saying we should remove hit points and damage being dealt to PCs so that we can actually just let people play without them worrying that their tactics might put them in danger. D&D in its standard form is played in a universe with certain very real properties based on allignment. The allignment related rules ALLOW the DM to use that part of the setting, not force him to. If you want to play in a different universe where those metaphysical effects don't exist, you have no need for the allignment rules, just like if you want to play in a universe with no godless clerics you have no need for the rules which allow them to be used.</blockquote>