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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Al" data-source="post: 812470" data-attributes="member: 2486">Ranillon- You either misinterpret or misrepresent me.Essentially, my core point was not that chaotic people had no values per se, but that their values were based on two core tenets: firstly, that the fundamental tenets held on society are not inherently better than anyone else's; and secondly, that these values are more important to be bound by 'law'.In the first instance, this is not to say that the character necessarily disagrees with the values espoused by his society- but that he agrees with them only if he independently comes to his own conclusion that they are right.  A CG character may independently comes to the conclusion that a liberal democracy is the best form of government in today's society; whilst a LN character may support it simply because it is the status quo.  Secondly, the values are not proscribed by 'law'.  This is not to say that chaotics cannot think in the long-term.  CG needn't be a crazy zealot who is shot to pieces by the overlord's archers whilst he tries to storm the keep; nor need CE necessarily be executed for fireballing the marketplace.  Yet the fact is that they place no inherent value on 'law'.  If the CG character sees that the long-term good could be achieved better by breaking laws and codes, he is more likely to take that option; if the CE character sees his long-term interest benefits from breaking the law, he will take that option.  However, they will not necessarily take the option simply because it is there (unless on the extreme ends of CN).  However, the interesting attitude is CN.  CN comes most closely towards Umbran's interpretation of chaotic (which I believe unsuitable to CG and CE).  CG and CE both have a moral long-term goal: the betterment of society or the self.  Yet CN has no such 'moral' goal- his desire to rebel against society first and foremost because that is his desire.  Of course, CN can be tempered- but pure CN rebels purely for the act of rebelling.This, is my mind, is the core difference between CG/E and CN.</blockquote>

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