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<blockquote data-quote="Jeremy Ackerman-Yost" data-source="post: 357666" data-attributes="member: 4720">He was definitely a reformer of Judaism.&nbsp; No argument here.&nbsp; But he was instituting MAJOR reform.&nbsp; God was an unpleasant fellow in the Scriptures up to that point.&nbsp; He even encouraged genocide (of the Canaanites, for example), and tended to smite sinners, even among his chosen people.&nbsp; Jesus showed up with an ENTIRELY different idea of a Supreme Being.&nbsp; His didn't smite.&nbsp; He forgave.&nbsp; Didn't like the whole &quot;chosen people&quot; routine.&nbsp; Consorting with Gentiles and Sinners!&nbsp; GASP!&nbsp; People figured the Messiah was going to come and lead them to dominion over their Roman oppressors, and here was this Jesus guy taking a &quot;live and let live&quot; view of Rome: &quot;Give to Caesar what is Caesar's...&quot; and so on.&nbsp; &quot;And I didn't say that as a true CG he'd have run away because it was cowardice.&nbsp; I think he'd have run because staying and dying in obedience of laws that (as CG) he didn't respect would be stupid, when compared to continuing to live as an outlaw preacher who flouted authority.&quot;I wasn't even thinking about the &quot;obedience to law&quot; angle.&nbsp; Jesus didn't go to the cross willingly because of obedience to the law.&nbsp; He went because he knew that by his suffering he opened the way to Heaven for his people.&nbsp; The law had nothing to do with his motivations there.&nbsp; In fact, I find it ironic that the corrupt law put Jesus exactly where he needed to go.&nbsp; Besides, &quot;continuing to live as an outlaw preacher who flouted authority&quot; wouldn't gain him anything in the long run.&nbsp; If he got lucky, he would have scrabbled together a minor Jewish cult.&nbsp; By dying, (and rising again, if one believes in that sort of thing), he founded a lasting religion (if one that IMO ignores a LOT of what he was all about).&nbsp; &nbsp; As for &quot;CG in a LE society&quot;, I don't see alignments as changing based on the society they're in.&nbsp; If someone is LG and they enter and live in an LE society, you don't suddenly call them CG because they don't respect the LE laws.&quot;Point to you.&nbsp; That was a pretty inane remark from me.&nbsp; Being against a particular Lawful society doesn't make one chaotic.&nbsp; Reading what Jesus said, as opposed to how he was subsequently interpreted, has always led me to list his priorities like so:1. Compassion2. Worth of Every Individual3. Respect and Love for God (which is shown via compassion for all people and respect for God's Creation)4. Church and Secular LawNeutral Good may be a better choice, but I still think he leans more to the Chaotic side than the Lawful side.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Jeremy Ackerman-Yost, post: 357666, member: 4720"] He was definitely a reformer of Judaism. No argument here. But he was instituting MAJOR reform. God was an unpleasant fellow in the Scriptures up to that point. He even encouraged genocide (of the Canaanites, for example), and tended to smite sinners, even among his chosen people. Jesus showed up with an ENTIRELY different idea of a Supreme Being. His didn't smite. He forgave. Didn't like the whole "chosen people" routine. Consorting with Gentiles and Sinners! GASP! People figured the Messiah was going to come and lead them to dominion over their Roman oppressors, and here was this Jesus guy taking a "live and let live" view of Rome: "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's..." and so on. [B]"And I didn't say that as a true CG he'd have run away because it was cowardice. I think he'd have run because staying and dying in obedience of laws that (as CG) he didn't respect would be stupid, when compared to continuing to live as an outlaw preacher who flouted authority."[/B] I wasn't even thinking about the "obedience to law" angle. Jesus didn't go to the cross willingly because of obedience to the law. He went because he knew that by his suffering he opened the way to Heaven for his people. The law had nothing to do with his motivations there. In fact, I find it ironic that the corrupt law put Jesus exactly where he needed to go. Besides, "continuing to live as an outlaw preacher who flouted authority" wouldn't gain him anything in the long run. If he got lucky, he would have scrabbled together a minor Jewish cult. By dying, (and rising again, if one believes in that sort of thing), he founded a lasting religion (if one that IMO ignores a LOT of what he was all about). [B]As for "CG in a LE society", I don't see alignments as changing based on the society they're in. If someone is LG and they enter and live in an LE society, you don't suddenly call them CG because they don't respect the LE laws."[/B] Point to you. That was a pretty inane remark from me. Being against a particular Lawful society doesn't make one chaotic. Reading what Jesus said, as opposed to how he was subsequently interpreted, has always led me to list his priorities like so: 1. Compassion 2. Worth of Every Individual 3. Respect and Love for God (which is shown via compassion for all people and respect for God's Creation) 4. Church and Secular Law Neutral Good may be a better choice, but I still think he leans more to the Chaotic side than the Lawful side. [/QUOTE]

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