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<blockquote data-quote="Cap'n Kobold" data-source="post: 8006231" data-attributes="member: 6802951">The line between killing and murder (outside of a legal definition) is, as you say, fuzzy.Torture is less so and is a good indicator of good/evil. Torture can be the easy/expedient route to solve a problem, and a single instance in the heat of the moment may not make a Good character into an Evil one. However a formerly Good character who starts justifying using torture more and more as &quot;its necessary&quot; or &quot;its not evil to use the methods of my enemies against them&quot; is a fairly classic fall from grace story. After all, if your intentions are good, then surely its OK to use whatever means necessary to eliminate the gnome threat, or restore your nation to its former greatness, or inflict <s>venge</s> justice upon those who wronged you.There's surely nothing evil about that is there?I generally run Eberron, where things are relatively clear. Most outsiders are actual manifestations of their planar origin, and thus of fairly fixed alignment. It is possible for them to change alignments, but this is part of a general change in which that cease to become that kind of outsider, and become something else instead.As you say: An angel that falls becomes a devil. The succubus paladin would no longer be a fiend etc.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Cap'n Kobold, post: 8006231, member: 6802951"] The line between killing and murder (outside of a legal definition) is, as you say, fuzzy. Torture is less so and is a good indicator of good/evil. [I]Torture can be the easy/expedient route to solve a problem[/I], and a single instance in the heat of the moment may not make a Good character into an Evil one. However a formerly Good character who starts justifying using torture more and more as "its necessary" or "its not evil to use the methods of my enemies against them" is a fairly classic fall from grace story. After all, if your [I]intentions[/I] are good, then surely its OK to use whatever means necessary to eliminate the gnome threat, or restore your nation to its former greatness, or inflict [S]venge[/S] justice upon those who wronged you. There's surely nothing evil about that is there? I generally run Eberron, where things are relatively clear. Most outsiders are actual manifestations of their planar origin, and thus of fairly fixed alignment. It is possible for them to change alignments, but this is part of a general change in which that cease to become that kind of outsider, and become something else instead. As you say: An angel that falls becomes a devil. The succubus paladin would no longer be a fiend etc. [/QUOTE]

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