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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 3521226" data-attributes="member: 42582">I said:I got these replies:I rest my case that alignment is not common sense, and not simple.Some more comments:But it is the entirety of the game's moral framework. And my point concerned the complexity of moral judgement, not the (potentially greater) complexity of psychological judgement.This doesn't refute my point. If the game makes most Christian knights come out as Neutral or Evil, but encourages PCs to be Good, then it precludes PCs playing Christian knights. And that was what I said (that, in practice, alignment rules out plots like the Crusades). You seem to agree when you say that D&D is not historical roleplaying.Btw, with respect to the Dire Bear, I think its ignorance excuses it. If it was an (intelligent) Giant Lynx the story would be different.And with respect to the following:I think this is part of why alignment causes so much friction at the gaming table.I've been FRPG-ing fopr 25 years; I started with Moldvay Basic/Epert. I think my view that alignment is complex, and in certain respects limiting, is not overly coloured by how I started. It is influenced by what is, in my view the best article on alingment: "For King and Country", in Dragon 101 (from memory). It's probably also influenced by the fact that I am an academic moral philosopher.I guess my view is that you can have a game with good characters, evil characters, constant characters, changing characters, deep spiritual wrongness, holy divinities, and all the rest, without the alignment mechanic. I know, because I GM such games.In my experience, if someone wants to play a paladin, who is also a wanton murderer, telling the player that paladins must be Lawful Good won't solve the problem. It will just lead to alignment bickering. We can still have their god take their powers away (and perhaps they can turn to the path of the blackguard). Why do we need to mediate this sort of moral and spiritual matter through the alignment rules? Why not just cut straight to the chase?I could conceive of particular campaigns where D&D-style alignment might work (eg Moorcock-ian Law vs Chaos). But I don't see how it supports generic fantasy roleplaying.</blockquote>

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