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<blockquote data-quote="jsaving" data-source="post: 5777885" data-attributes="member: 16726">Great points, Celebrim.&nbsp; But I think one of your points is worth exploring in a bit more detail:It seems to me that the chaotic person wouldn't have anything against societies that form spontaneously as individuals voluntarily choose with whom to associate.&nbsp; But efforts to regulate or control that society would be opposed on principle, even if the rulers embarking upon those efforts claimed to be seeking the common good.&nbsp; Indeed, chaotics likely wouldn't even accept that there's a common good to seek, because to them society has no meaning apart from the individual wishes of its members.&nbsp; Which would seem like absolute bunk to lawfuls, though they'd be split amongst themselves on what common societal purpose to seek and the proper roles of benevolence and cruelty in achieving it.Does that make chaotics self-centered?&nbsp; Sure, though selves-centered or individual-centered might be more precise (if more cumbersome) ways of putting it.&nbsp; What it doesn't do is make them &quot;selfish,&quot; which the dictionary defines as being concerned about themselves to the exclusion of others.&nbsp; CEs certainly would be, seeing &quot;freedom for all&quot; as a means by which they can fleece others out of house and home, but CGs wouldn't, because they'd see &quot;freedom for all&quot; as the best way to help people.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="jsaving, post: 5777885, member: 16726"] Great points, Celebrim. But I think one of your points is worth exploring in a bit more detail: It seems to me that the chaotic person wouldn't have anything against societies that form spontaneously as individuals voluntarily choose with whom to associate. But efforts to regulate or control that society would be opposed on principle, even if the rulers embarking upon those efforts claimed to be seeking the common good. Indeed, chaotics likely wouldn't even accept that there's a common good to seek, because to them society has no meaning apart from the individual wishes of its members. Which would seem like absolute bunk to lawfuls, though they'd be split amongst themselves on what common societal purpose to seek and the proper roles of benevolence and cruelty in achieving it. Does that make chaotics self-centered? Sure, though selves-centered or individual-centered might be more precise (if more cumbersome) ways of putting it. What it doesn't do is make them "selfish," which the dictionary defines as being concerned about themselves to the exclusion of others. CEs certainly would be, seeing "freedom for all" as a means by which they can fleece others out of house and home, but CGs wouldn't, because they'd see "freedom for all" as the best way to help people. [/QUOTE]

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