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<blockquote data-quote="WizarDru" data-source="post: 433096" data-attributes="member: 151">Re: back on trackWell, actually, we're not.&nbsp; The first post in the thread references an event from Doc's game, but doesn't go into details.&nbsp; It then posits a question, the one this poll is based on, and asks for comments....which is where we are.I suppose that depends on what society you're a member of....we've got quite a few represented here at ENWorld...and remember that many U.S. states address the issue of what is and what is not murder differently.&nbsp; Given how diverse the viewpoints of RL legal pundits and citizens are, I don't know that you could define something as complex and emotional as murder so tightly with so broad a definition as you provide in your post, IMHO.I think part of the problem is the confusion of an Assasain and 'an assasain'.&nbsp; One is a PrC that has certain prerequisites, and another is just the descriptor of someone who performs the action.&nbsp; A paladin can commit an assaination of the evil dragon king, but not be an Assasain (PrC).&nbsp; One implies evil, and one may or may not.The assumption, based on Doc's case, is that the person ordering the assaination is powerful enough to commit the act, but chooses not to do so.&nbsp; Obviously, this isn't always the case.&nbsp; The King of Nyrond certainly can't kill one of Iuz's lieutenants, and after the devastation of the Greyhawk wars, he can hardly feed his people, let alone field an army to stop one of the Boneheart from leading a group of orcs into his northern territory.&nbsp; He certainly couldn't match him in single combat, even if he wanted to do so.&nbsp; If selling some of the gold from the castle's coffers to a master killer will cause the invading army to disperse, save countless lives and protect his kingdom, he'll do it.&nbsp; And I don't see that as evil, even if it means using an evil force to do it.&nbsp; The problem, in toto, is that to be real leader in any gameworld, you can't afford to be LG, I suppose.Does this mean I'm implying there aren't better ways?&nbsp; Surely not.&nbsp; I would expect a paladin to look for a ways, and a good DM to be sure and provide some.&nbsp; But sometimes, evil needs killin'. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin&nbsp; &nbsp; :D"&nbsp; data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" /></blockquote>

[QUOTE="WizarDru, post: 433096, member: 151"] [b]Re: back on track[/b] Well, actually, we're not. The first post in the thread references an event from Doc's game, but doesn't go into details. It then posits a question, the one this poll is based on, and asks for comments....which is where we are. [b][/b] I suppose that depends on what society you're a member of....we've got quite a few represented here at ENWorld...and remember that many U.S. states address the issue of what is and what is not murder differently. Given how diverse the viewpoints of RL legal pundits and citizens are, I don't know that you could define something as complex and emotional as murder so tightly with so broad a definition as you provide in your post, IMHO. I think part of the problem is the confusion of an Assasain and 'an assasain'. One is a PrC that has certain prerequisites, and another is just the descriptor of someone who performs the action. A paladin can commit an assaination of the evil dragon king, but not be an Assasain (PrC). One implies evil, and one may or may not. The assumption, based on Doc's case, is that the person ordering the assaination is powerful enough to commit the act, but chooses not to do so. Obviously, this isn't always the case. The King of Nyrond certainly can't kill one of Iuz's lieutenants, and after the devastation of the Greyhawk wars, he can hardly feed his people, let alone field an army to stop one of the Boneheart from leading a group of orcs into his northern territory. He certainly couldn't match him in single combat, even if he wanted to do so. If selling some of the gold from the castle's coffers to a master killer will cause the invading army to disperse, save countless lives and protect his kingdom, he'll do it. And I don't see that as evil, even if it means using an evil force to do it. The problem, in toto, is that to be real leader in any gameworld, you can't afford to be LG, I suppose. Does this mean I'm implying there aren't better ways? Surely not. I would expect a paladin to look for a ways, and a good DM to be sure and provide some. But sometimes, evil needs killin'. :D [/QUOTE]

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