Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Alignment, Magic, and Style
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Baron Opal" data-source="post: 5548022" data-attributes="member: 10433"><p><u><span style="font-size: 12px">Themes and Systems</span></u></p><p></p><p>Magic has always captured my imagination. I’ve loved fairy tales, adventure stories, and the like since I was a wee lad; much like most of you, I’m sure. What has struck me as I have read the stories is how different the various kinds of magic are, depending on what you are doing. Elizabethan necromancers, Islamic summoners, Taoist masters, they all have their own sources, means, and abilities that were different from others. Now, there are certainly a variety or reasons for that. There were usually a number of commonalities, however. Any one of them could turn you into a toad, but how they did it and what they could do in addition to that made them different and interesting.</p><p></p><p>For the most part, magic in D&D has been the slot / spell level system (Vancian, for the lack of a better term). I like it, it works for what I want it to do. The psionic systems have been interesting as well. Early editions had a pretty flat system; either you had it or not. All in the Mind from White Drawf #79 had the first glimmer of a class based system. If you had psionic abilities they were rated according to raw power (master, grand master &c.) and your level determined skill with individual disciplines. If everyone had them, there were a pretty good accent to the variety of characters. Even those who didn’t could be appropriately compensated with magic items or other abilities. </p><p></p><p>Second edition moved away from a tacked on system to its own class. The powers were rated with levels and points. Characters had a much more free form system where they could choose to husband their resources for the big flash if they chose. It provided a great deal of flexibility.</p><p></p><p>As the game has progressed, I’ve appreciated the different mechanics invented. I have had a hard time, however, figuring out where psionics / psychics fit in a D&D world. For the most part it’s just a thematic issue. The spells of magic-users and disciplines of psionicists have had too much overlap for me. There was an insufficient specialization for me to have both sub- systems unless it was going to be a more kitchen-sink world (which I’ve done and had fun with).</p><p></p><p>I imagine magic, in its most basic form, to be a Chaotic force. It is the will acting as directly as possible upon the world. The magical words, gestures, wands are all crutches to assist the magician in achieving and maintaining the proper frame of mind to effect change. Since it is a matter of a proper point of view, most magicians are chaotic. It’s simply easier for a chaotic person to change their focus from affection to wrath and back again in order to throw a magic missile as someone attacking the magician’s friend. Lawful people can do this too, however. The human capacity to maintain contradictory thoughts and ideals is well known. Lawful casters would probably be more likely to use the magic circles, need to chant in dead languages, and use words of power.</p><p></p><p>The Empyrians I mentioned previously are the foundations of the gaming reality. They can not be nullified any more than gravity or electromagnetism is for us. Therefore, while there is enough Chaos to effect this willful change, there is also enough Law to control it. Still magic is still inherently chaotic despite it’s usefulness. So what about Law?</p><p></p><p>Science or technology is the natural counterpart to magic in my mind. Only select individuals can do magic, anyone can perform science. Wands are specially made and choose the caster, technology mass produces copies for everyone. The wizard can perform miracles, but his tower collapses into dust when he dies. The engineer makes small advances in his field, but the bridge he designs lasts generations. There are a lot of favorable contrasts here.</p><p></p><p>I’ve found it kind of sucks to play, however. It’s probably why it took so long for a useful tech / Law book to come out for BRP.</p><p></p><p>There is a useful middle. I’ve read a number of supplements around the natural philosopher. This is a character that uses knowledge of the natural world; alchemy, astrology, and other “sciences” that were pursued in the ancient world and have since been refined into modern sciences. That sounds pretty neat to me, and sounds like a Lawful power scheme. The character has to understand some obscure natural laws and is able to exploit them for his and his party’s benefit. It could be an excellent second choice for the character who wants to play a “powered” character. Natural philosopher is a mouthful, however. I think I prefer “artificer”, particularly after reading some of the card commentary from my old Magic cards.</p><p></p><p>I even have a class to start out with. The Complete Alchemist, seasoned with a couple chapters from the Medieval Player’s Handbook will give me what I need.</p><p></p><p>There is a major problem with artificers, however. Gold.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Baron Opal, post: 5548022, member: 10433"] [U][SIZE="3"]Themes and Systems[/SIZE][/U] Magic has always captured my imagination. I’ve loved fairy tales, adventure stories, and the like since I was a wee lad; much like most of you, I’m sure. What has struck me as I have read the stories is how different the various kinds of magic are, depending on what you are doing. Elizabethan necromancers, Islamic summoners, Taoist masters, they all have their own sources, means, and abilities that were different from others. Now, there are certainly a variety or reasons for that. There were usually a number of commonalities, however. Any one of them could turn you into a toad, but how they did it and what they could do in addition to that made them different and interesting. For the most part, magic in D&D has been the slot / spell level system (Vancian, for the lack of a better term). I like it, it works for what I want it to do. The psionic systems have been interesting as well. Early editions had a pretty flat system; either you had it or not. All in the Mind from White Drawf #79 had the first glimmer of a class based system. If you had psionic abilities they were rated according to raw power (master, grand master &c.) and your level determined skill with individual disciplines. If everyone had them, there were a pretty good accent to the variety of characters. Even those who didn’t could be appropriately compensated with magic items or other abilities. Second edition moved away from a tacked on system to its own class. The powers were rated with levels and points. Characters had a much more free form system where they could choose to husband their resources for the big flash if they chose. It provided a great deal of flexibility. As the game has progressed, I’ve appreciated the different mechanics invented. I have had a hard time, however, figuring out where psionics / psychics fit in a D&D world. For the most part it’s just a thematic issue. The spells of magic-users and disciplines of psionicists have had too much overlap for me. There was an insufficient specialization for me to have both sub- systems unless it was going to be a more kitchen-sink world (which I’ve done and had fun with). I imagine magic, in its most basic form, to be a Chaotic force. It is the will acting as directly as possible upon the world. The magical words, gestures, wands are all crutches to assist the magician in achieving and maintaining the proper frame of mind to effect change. Since it is a matter of a proper point of view, most magicians are chaotic. It’s simply easier for a chaotic person to change their focus from affection to wrath and back again in order to throw a magic missile as someone attacking the magician’s friend. Lawful people can do this too, however. The human capacity to maintain contradictory thoughts and ideals is well known. Lawful casters would probably be more likely to use the magic circles, need to chant in dead languages, and use words of power. The Empyrians I mentioned previously are the foundations of the gaming reality. They can not be nullified any more than gravity or electromagnetism is for us. Therefore, while there is enough Chaos to effect this willful change, there is also enough Law to control it. Still magic is still inherently chaotic despite it’s usefulness. So what about Law? Science or technology is the natural counterpart to magic in my mind. Only select individuals can do magic, anyone can perform science. Wands are specially made and choose the caster, technology mass produces copies for everyone. The wizard can perform miracles, but his tower collapses into dust when he dies. The engineer makes small advances in his field, but the bridge he designs lasts generations. There are a lot of favorable contrasts here. I’ve found it kind of sucks to play, however. It’s probably why it took so long for a useful tech / Law book to come out for BRP. There is a useful middle. I’ve read a number of supplements around the natural philosopher. This is a character that uses knowledge of the natural world; alchemy, astrology, and other “sciences” that were pursued in the ancient world and have since been refined into modern sciences. That sounds pretty neat to me, and sounds like a Lawful power scheme. The character has to understand some obscure natural laws and is able to exploit them for his and his party’s benefit. It could be an excellent second choice for the character who wants to play a “powered” character. Natural philosopher is a mouthful, however. I think I prefer “artificer”, particularly after reading some of the card commentary from my old Magic cards. I even have a class to start out with. The Complete Alchemist, seasoned with a couple chapters from the Medieval Player’s Handbook will give me what I need. There is a major problem with artificers, however. Gold. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Alignment, Magic, and Style
Top