D&D 4E Alignment Mechanics in 4e?
- Thread starter DevP
- Start date
Players that worship (such as Cleric) a Deity of some kind are required to be either Unaligned or the same alignment as the Deity. You'll have to check the specifics of this as I'm not at home, but I think this only comes into play when you take a feat to get one of those powers you use in place of Turn Undead (Divine something???) from a specific Deity.
Infiniti2000
First Post
You're the first person I've heard about ever wanting to expand the alignment system. Make sure your players are on board with that approach. I sure wouldn't be. 
Droogie128
First Post
Thankfully, there are no real mechanical ties to alignment. It's purely flavor.
DracoSuave
First Post
Characters need to be fleshed out more.
Alignment is not good flesh to do this with.
Expanding the alignment system isn't necessary, it is simple and low-impact and non-important for a reason.
Alignment is not good flesh to do this with.
Expanding the alignment system isn't necessary, it is simple and low-impact and non-important for a reason.
I don't like overly mechanistic alignment restrictions myself. (Specifically: I dislike races with a predetermined alignment, and I never liked the penalty to a character changing their alignment.)
My thoughts were about the gap between the 4E alignment spectrum and the older 3x3 alignment axes. I agree with what the simplification, but among folks i know, some people miss the somewhat "quirkier" alignments that are no longer highlighted (basically the seemingly contradictory ones: Chaotic Good, Lawful Evil, etc). Of course, actual gameplay > geekful alignment debates.
The lack of mechanical impacts mean I can drop in another alignment system (or none at all) without impacting the game much.
My thoughts were about the gap between the 4E alignment spectrum and the older 3x3 alignment axes. I agree with what the simplification, but among folks i know, some people miss the somewhat "quirkier" alignments that are no longer highlighted (basically the seemingly contradictory ones: Chaotic Good, Lawful Evil, etc). Of course, actual gameplay > geekful alignment debates.
The lack of mechanical impacts mean I can drop in another alignment system (or none at all) without impacting the game much.
Starfox
Hero
This is the best thing about the 4E alignment system - it is there if you like it, but can be safely ignored or changed for something else entirely.
When translating alignments from 3e to 4e I paired the following:
3e LG & LN -> 4e Lawful (Good)
3e LE & NE -> 4e Evil
3e CE & CN -> 4e Chaotic (Evil)
3e CG & NG -> 4e Good
3e NN -> 4e Unaligned
In my game I simply call 4e 'Chaotic Evil' 'Chaotic', hence the brackets (similarly for 'Lawful Good' which just becomes 'Lawful'). This serves to put an emphasis on the more important part of the alignment.
Turned around this means if someone wants to pick a CG alignment in 4e he'd choose 'Good' and focus on the 'fights for freedom' aspect. The alignment descriptions are broad enough to allow this.
These pairing work very well, imho. E.g. I've never felt that someone with a 3e CG alignment would ever consciously commit an evil act just because it would have been the more 'chaotic' choice.
With 3e CN it's the opposite: typically the chaotic element would be played up without any restraint, often resulting in actions that would normally considered 'evil'.
3e LG & LN -> 4e Lawful (Good)
3e LE & NE -> 4e Evil
3e CE & CN -> 4e Chaotic (Evil)
3e CG & NG -> 4e Good
3e NN -> 4e Unaligned
In my game I simply call 4e 'Chaotic Evil' 'Chaotic', hence the brackets (similarly for 'Lawful Good' which just becomes 'Lawful'). This serves to put an emphasis on the more important part of the alignment.
Turned around this means if someone wants to pick a CG alignment in 4e he'd choose 'Good' and focus on the 'fights for freedom' aspect. The alignment descriptions are broad enough to allow this.
These pairing work very well, imho. E.g. I've never felt that someone with a 3e CG alignment would ever consciously commit an evil act just because it would have been the more 'chaotic' choice.
With 3e CN it's the opposite: typically the chaotic element would be played up without any restraint, often resulting in actions that would normally considered 'evil'.
Starfox
Hero
In our games, Lawful neutral is often a strong (I was gonna say vibrant, but that's not right for LN) force in the world. Its a "strong government" type of loyalist or nationalist that are often the driving force behind nations in our games. The byword is often "right or wrong, our country". Definitely not Lawful Good or Evil, but Unaligned doesn't really cover it either.
I also feel there is quite a strong distinction between Neutral Good (velvet gloves) and Chaotic Good (do what thou wilt), tough this is a bit harder to put into examples. And Chaotic Neutral is to me a pretty good classification of libertarian capitalism. I don't feel any of these are redundant.
But in 4E, all of this doesn't matter. I feel the 4E alignment handles are insufficient for describing alignment, but I am relieved it no longer matters. In 3E, you were sometimes punished for picking an alignment, where a Neutral character could escape consequences, and that was a price of role-playing and heroism I definitely did not like. Thus I still prefer the wishy-washy 4E system to the game-effect 3E system. If I like I can use the 3E names of the alignments (in fact, I do so), and everyone around here will still know what I'm talking about, but there is no game effect.
PS: When classifying the alignment of Corellon, Chaotic Good became Unaligned. The way Corellon is described in 4E, he still seems to be what 3E called CG, only that alignment does not exist anymore. But they did not make him Good. It seems they use a different alignment map than you, Jhaelen.
~DS.
I also feel there is quite a strong distinction between Neutral Good (velvet gloves) and Chaotic Good (do what thou wilt), tough this is a bit harder to put into examples. And Chaotic Neutral is to me a pretty good classification of libertarian capitalism. I don't feel any of these are redundant.
But in 4E, all of this doesn't matter. I feel the 4E alignment handles are insufficient for describing alignment, but I am relieved it no longer matters. In 3E, you were sometimes punished for picking an alignment, where a Neutral character could escape consequences, and that was a price of role-playing and heroism I definitely did not like. Thus I still prefer the wishy-washy 4E system to the game-effect 3E system. If I like I can use the 3E names of the alignments (in fact, I do so), and everyone around here will still know what I'm talking about, but there is no game effect.
PS: When classifying the alignment of Corellon, Chaotic Good became Unaligned. The way Corellon is described in 4E, he still seems to be what 3E called CG, only that alignment does not exist anymore. But they did not make him Good. It seems they use a different alignment map than you, Jhaelen.
~DS.
Ryujin
Legend
Unaligned appears to be the alignment of political agendas, rather than good or evil. This makes infinite good sense, to me.
Given the number of complaints that I've heard over the years, it's a good thing that alignment has become nothing more than a role playing hand-wave. Five people can see the niceties of the same alignment in completely and fundamentally different ways. This becomes an issue when the DM and his players don't see eye-to-eye on an issue and there are real, mechanics effecting consequences to a breach of alignment. Much better that failure to follow strictures of religion and alignment result in social penalties, rather than mechanical ones.
Given the number of complaints that I've heard over the years, it's a good thing that alignment has become nothing more than a role playing hand-wave. Five people can see the niceties of the same alignment in completely and fundamentally different ways. This becomes an issue when the DM and his players don't see eye-to-eye on an issue and there are real, mechanics effecting consequences to a breach of alignment. Much better that failure to follow strictures of religion and alignment result in social penalties, rather than mechanical ones.
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