Reply to thread

Message

<blockquote data-quote="DreamChaser" data-source="post: 698526" data-attributes="member: 1190">Please ignore history in discussions like this.&nbsp; the Knightly Code of Honor was a pleasant myth dreamed up by writers hundreds of years after &quot;knights&quot; even existed...and besides, this is not history, it is fantasy.The core of this discussion is set between two choices; you eithera) believe that the paladin is an archetype in and of itself and that that archetype is based upon honor, loyalty, and goodness.orb) believe that a paladin is a holy champion of some type.They are really very different animals and discussing the two in one thread is very hard.On another note:The issue here is whether torture is a chaotic (ie more concerned with individuality) act or an evil (pursuing your own goals regardless of who is harmed) act.&nbsp; I would say it is evil.&nbsp; I would go so far as to say that any Ends Justifies the Means philosophy is more Neutral Evil than Neutral Good.Especially in a fantasy game where there are truth spells and mind probes, using torture is not necessary, it is merely expedient and choosing expedience over a non-cruel slower course is not merely amoral, it is immoral.On another note, people speak of neutrality as if it is a thing.&nbsp; It is not.&nbsp; It is the absence of a thing.&nbsp; To say that a neutral character believes something is false.&nbsp; They are identified by what they don't believe (except the &quot;balance&quot; theory of true neutral).&nbsp; A neutral good character is concerned only for the greater good and does not concern herself with tradtion, free will, honor, or change.&nbsp; A lawful neutral character is concerned with order and tradition but is unconcerned with good or evil.In my opinion, in a nutshell, Truth, tradition, honor = lawfulFree-will, change, cutting edge = chaoticPreservation of life, helping others, compassion = goodLack of concern for life, selfishness, cruelty = evilIn my mind, the paladin is a warrior who follows a tradition of pursuing the greatest good by the greatest means, never compromising honor for good or vice versa.&nbsp; This is lawful good.Of course, I don't use the alignment system anymore so this whole argument is a little moot for me.JMHODC</blockquote>

[QUOTE="DreamChaser, post: 698526, member: 1190"] Please ignore history in discussions like this. the Knightly Code of Honor was a pleasant myth dreamed up by writers hundreds of years after "knights" even existed...and besides, this is not history, it is fantasy. The core of this discussion is set between two choices; you either a) believe that the paladin is an archetype in and of itself and that that archetype is based upon honor, loyalty, and goodness. or b) believe that a paladin is a holy champion of some type. They are really very different animals and discussing the two in one thread is very hard. On another note: The issue here is whether torture is a chaotic (ie more concerned with individuality) act or an evil (pursuing your own goals regardless of who is harmed) act. I would say it is evil. I would go so far as to say that any Ends Justifies the Means philosophy is more Neutral Evil than Neutral Good. Especially in a fantasy game where there are truth spells and mind probes, using torture is not necessary, it is merely expedient and choosing expedience over a non-cruel slower course is not merely amoral, it is immoral. On another note, people speak of neutrality as if it is a thing. It is not. It is the absence of a thing. To say that a neutral character believes something is false. They are identified by what they don't believe (except the "balance" theory of true neutral). A neutral good character is concerned only for the greater good and does not concern herself with tradtion, free will, honor, or change. A lawful neutral character is concerned with order and tradition but is unconcerned with good or evil. In my opinion, in a nutshell, Truth, tradition, honor = lawful Free-will, change, cutting edge = chaotic Preservation of life, helping others, compassion = good Lack of concern for life, selfishness, cruelty = evil In my mind, the paladin is a warrior who follows a tradition of pursuing the greatest good by the greatest means, never compromising honor for good or vice versa. This is lawful good. Of course, I don't use the alignment system anymore so this whole argument is a little moot for me. JMHO DC [/QUOTE]

Verification