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Alignment Situations I
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<blockquote data-quote="Lord Pendragon" data-source="post: 808616" data-attributes="member: 707"><p>You're ignoring the fact that we're dealing with a fire giant here. If it were a human, then sure--taking it to the guards is fine, because you can reasonably expect the human to be tried by a court of law and given a fair shake. But we're talking about a fire giant. Human settlements can't handle that. Most likely, the guards are going to kill it to protect themselves. Saying, "well...maybe they won't kill it" when you know they will is denying reality, and that doesn't absolve you of the moral responsibility either.</p><p></p><p>Let me state also that were the guards we're dealing with here <em>also</em> fire giants--or 20th-level fighters--the situation would change. Then you could reasonably believe that the guards may not kill the giant, and instead try to reform him or inprison him, etc. But in the scenario as given, you can't reasonably believe that the guards--dealing with a soon-to-be-waking <em>fire giant</em>, aren't going to kill it. Because you know they'll probably kill it, you share in the responsibility for its death.</p><p></p><p>Now you're hyperbolizing your examples, which doesn't really prove anything. But I'll play even so. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin :D" data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" /></p><p></p><p>No, you shouldn't kill the beggar, because you can reasonably believe that this beggar may not commit a crime.</p><p></p><p>Now let us change the beggar into a unrepentant serial-killer. Should you kill him? After all, you are virtually <em>guaranteed</em> to be stopping a crime by doing so. The answer to this is also no, because you can imprison the serial-killer, and thus also prevent the crime.</p><p></p><p>Changing it even further, what if we make the unrepentant serial-killer into a <em>dragon</em>? We have no hope of containing it. We have no hope of stopping it from killing again if it so chooses. Should we kill it if we get the chance? Yes.</p><p></p><p>Of course, we don't know that the fire giant of the above scenario is an unrepentant serial killer, so the question is not so cut and dried. But all of this is immaterial to the moral decision that we (as the adventurers with the subdued fire giant) are facing anyway. The above discussion pertains to the moral decision the <em>guards</em> will make, if we decide to give the giant to them.</p><p></p><p>Our only concern, as the adventurers, is whether our actions will result in the fire giant's death. If we can reasonably assume that the guards will kill the giant (and I believe we can, assuming a basic humanoid settlement) then choosing to give the giant to the guards is tantamount to choosing to kill the giant. That was my point originally. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue :p" data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Lord Pendragon, post: 808616, member: 707"] You're ignoring the fact that we're dealing with a fire giant here. If it were a human, then sure--taking it to the guards is fine, because you can reasonably expect the human to be tried by a court of law and given a fair shake. But we're talking about a fire giant. Human settlements can't handle that. Most likely, the guards are going to kill it to protect themselves. Saying, "well...maybe they won't kill it" when you know they will is denying reality, and that doesn't absolve you of the moral responsibility either. Let me state also that were the guards we're dealing with here [i]also[/i] fire giants--or 20th-level fighters--the situation would change. Then you could reasonably believe that the guards may not kill the giant, and instead try to reform him or inprison him, etc. But in the scenario as given, you can't reasonably believe that the guards--dealing with a soon-to-be-waking [i]fire giant[/i], aren't going to kill it. Because you know they'll probably kill it, you share in the responsibility for its death. Now you're hyperbolizing your examples, which doesn't really prove anything. But I'll play even so. :D No, you shouldn't kill the beggar, because you can reasonably believe that this beggar may not commit a crime. Now let us change the beggar into a unrepentant serial-killer. Should you kill him? After all, you are virtually [i]guaranteed[/i] to be stopping a crime by doing so. The answer to this is also no, because you can imprison the serial-killer, and thus also prevent the crime. Changing it even further, what if we make the unrepentant serial-killer into a [i]dragon[/i]? We have no hope of containing it. We have no hope of stopping it from killing again if it so chooses. Should we kill it if we get the chance? Yes. Of course, we don't know that the fire giant of the above scenario is an unrepentant serial killer, so the question is not so cut and dried. But all of this is immaterial to the moral decision that we (as the adventurers with the subdued fire giant) are facing anyway. The above discussion pertains to the moral decision the [i]guards[/i] will make, if we decide to give the giant to them. Our only concern, as the adventurers, is whether our actions will result in the fire giant's death. If we can reasonably assume that the guards will kill the giant (and I believe we can, assuming a basic humanoid settlement) then choosing to give the giant to the guards is tantamount to choosing to kill the giant. That was my point originally. :p [/QUOTE]
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