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<blockquote data-quote="Cadence" data-source="post: 8293070" data-attributes="member: 6701124">It feels like in the early edition Law was good and Chaos was evil -- until they get to Eldritch Wizardry.&nbsp; Then they wallow for a bit before&nbsp; AD&amp;D/Holmes go one way and Moldvay goes the other.In the first three books of OD&amp;D they don't seem to even define the the three (L/N/C). Men and Magic just gives a table with things classified into groups.&nbsp; [Evil High Priests are under Chaos, Patriarchs are under Law,&nbsp; Men are under all three, Elves are under Law and Neutrality].&nbsp; Monsters and Treasure doesn't either.&nbsp; Underworld &amp; Wilderness Adventures merely restates about Evil High Priests and Patriarchs.In Greyhawk they add Paladins to the Law list.&nbsp; They also note &quot;Chaotic Alignment by a player generally betokens chaotic action on the player's part without any rule to stress this aspect, i.e. a chaotic player is usually more prone to stab even his lawless budy in the back for some desired gain.&nbsp; However, chaos is just that - chaotic.&nbsp; Evil monsters are as likely to turn on their supposed confederates in order to have all the loot as they are to attack a lawful party in the first place.&nbsp; While there is no rule to apply to groups of chaotic players operating in concert, referees are urged to formulate some rules against continuing co-operation as fits their particular situation, but consideration for concerted action against chaotic players by lawful ones should be given.&quot;-&nbsp; It also notes that Paladins lose all of their powers if they do a chaotic act.&nbsp;&nbsp; The &quot;Book of Exalted Deeds&quot; is lawful, and the &quot;Book of Vile Darkness&quot; is chaotic.&nbsp; The&nbsp; Lammasu is lawful (and helpful).&nbsp; The &quot;Libram of Silver Magic&quot; is a monograph on good magic and helps lawful magic users.Blackmoor doesn't have much. Eldritch Wizardry&nbsp; says a monster can be&quot; anything from a Balrog to a kindly good/lawful cleric&quot;.&nbsp; But then you get the calling out of Good and Evil from Chaos and Law for what might be the first time:[ATTACH=full]137769[/ATTACH]It still feels like the reader is supposed to know what lawful/chaotic and good/evil are without being told.Gods, Demi-Gods, and Heroes feels at some points like it wants Law to be the opposite of Evil and at others like Evil and Chaos are different things.&nbsp; Swords and spells doesn't seem to mention it.Holmes Basic separates them (below), as does AD&amp;D 1e:[ATTACH=full]137771[/ATTACH]But then Moldvay Basic reverts (with some clarification?) and &quot;usually&quot; matches Law with Good and Chaos with Evil:[ATTACH=full]137770[/ATTACH]</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Cadence, post: 8293070, member: 6701124"] It feels like in the early edition Law was good and Chaos was evil -- until they get to Eldritch Wizardry. Then they wallow for a bit before AD&D/Holmes go one way and Moldvay goes the other. In the first three books of OD&D they don't seem to even define the the three (L/N/C). Men and Magic just gives a table with things classified into groups. [Evil High Priests are under Chaos, Patriarchs are under Law, Men are under all three, Elves are under Law and Neutrality]. Monsters and Treasure doesn't either. Underworld & Wilderness Adventures merely restates about Evil High Priests and Patriarchs. In Greyhawk they add Paladins to the Law list. They also note "Chaotic Alignment by a player generally betokens chaotic action on the player's part without any rule to stress this aspect, i.e. a chaotic player is usually more prone to stab even his lawless budy in the back for some desired gain. However, chaos is just that - chaotic. Evil monsters are as likely to turn on their supposed confederates in order to have all the loot as they are to attack a lawful party in the first place. While there is no rule to apply to groups of chaotic players operating in concert, referees are urged to formulate some rules against continuing co-operation as fits their particular situation, but consideration for concerted action against chaotic players by lawful ones should be given."- It also notes that Paladins lose all of their powers if they do a chaotic act. The "Book of Exalted Deeds" is lawful, and the "Book of Vile Darkness" is chaotic. The Lammasu is lawful (and helpful). The "Libram of Silver Magic" is a monograph on good magic and helps lawful magic users. Blackmoor doesn't have much. Eldritch Wizardry says a monster can be" anything from a Balrog to a kindly good/lawful cleric". But then you get the calling out of Good and Evil from Chaos and Law for what might be the first time: [ATTACH type="full" alt="1622817858021.png"]137769[/ATTACH] It still feels like the reader is supposed to know what lawful/chaotic and good/evil are without being told. Gods, Demi-Gods, and Heroes feels at some points like it wants Law to be the opposite of Evil and at others like Evil and Chaos are different things. Swords and spells doesn't seem to mention it. Holmes Basic separates them (below), as does AD&D 1e: [ATTACH type="full" alt="1622818417773.png"]137771[/ATTACH] But then Moldvay Basic reverts (with some clarification?) and "usually" matches Law with Good and Chaos with Evil: [ATTACH type="full" alt="1622818265981.png"]137770[/ATTACH] [/QUOTE]

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