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<blockquote data-quote="kigmatzomat" data-source="post: 8771719" data-attributes="member: 9254">If you throw out the word &quot;democracy&quot;, this is a lot of civilizations.&nbsp; I mean, you could keep it and this referred to the Greeks. Face it the Greeks most common enemy were other Greeks. They only united against external threats, even then usually a few cities would flip for the invaders.Look at the Diadochi following Alexander's death. There was a huge empire that died with Alexander. They fractured immediately because the dominant personality was gone.For much of history, Kings and even Emperors lacked armies that were not personally loyal.&nbsp; Most of feudal Europe could have fit in this model.&nbsp; From the decline of Western European Rome in the 700s until the Hundred Years Wars in the 1300s, standing armies didn't exist, it was all personal vassalage. This is why the death of a powerful King rarely left an empire; it wasn't a political system as much as it was a cult of personality.Rome was pretty innovative in having a professional &quot;national&quot; army but many roman emperors spent much of their energy preventing generals from getting too popular for fear of being supplanted. (E.g. Justinian sidelining Belisarius)If you look at the various mountain &amp; highland-dwelling peoples, they flipped sides on a regular basis. From Armenia to Carpathia, the mountain peoples see each valley or mountain as a separate domain, beholden to themselves. What's the old joke about the Scots fighting the English only when not fighting their mortal enemies, the Scots?My knowledge is sketchier of eastern cultures but I believe various Mongol hordes were set up along clan lines, with the Khan being whoever manages to get most of the clans to back them. Even then, as I understand it, a Khan's authority becomes less &quot;law&quot; and more &quot;preference&quot; the farther away from the Khan you get.And now I am in love with the idea of mongol elves living in yurts, dressed in colorful silks with those tube kites for banners. They shun permanent cities but will happily have giant clan-moots in winter with thousands of elves waiting for the snow to thaw and don't bat an eye if a given group of elves settles down in one place for a decade or so to work on some project.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="kigmatzomat, post: 8771719, member: 9254"] If you throw out the word "democracy", this is a lot of civilizations. I mean, you could keep it and this referred to the Greeks. Face it the Greeks most common enemy were other Greeks. They only united against external threats, even then usually a few cities would flip for the invaders. Look at the Diadochi following Alexander's death. There was a huge empire that died with Alexander. They fractured immediately because the dominant personality was gone. For much of history, Kings and even Emperors lacked armies that were not personally loyal. Most of feudal Europe could have fit in this model. From the decline of Western European Rome in the 700s until the Hundred Years Wars in the 1300s, standing armies didn't exist, it was all personal vassalage. This is why the death of a powerful King rarely left an empire; it wasn't a political system as much as it was a cult of personality. Rome was pretty innovative in having a professional "national" army but many roman emperors spent much of their energy preventing generals from getting too popular for fear of being supplanted. (E.g. Justinian sidelining Belisarius) If you look at the various mountain & highland-dwelling peoples, they flipped sides on a regular basis. From Armenia to Carpathia, the mountain peoples see each valley or mountain as a separate domain, beholden to themselves. What's the old joke about the Scots fighting the English only when not fighting their mortal enemies, the Scots? My knowledge is sketchier of eastern cultures but I believe various Mongol hordes were set up along clan lines, with the Khan being whoever manages to get most of the clans to back them. Even then, as I understand it, a Khan's authority becomes less "law" and more "preference" the farther away from the Khan you get. And now I am in love with the idea of mongol elves living in yurts, dressed in colorful silks with those tube kites for banners. They shun permanent cities but will happily have giant clan-moots in winter with thousands of elves waiting for the snow to thaw and don't bat an eye if a given group of elves settles down in one place for a decade or so to work on some project. [/QUOTE]

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