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Alignment thread - True Neutrality
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<blockquote data-quote="Balesir" data-source="post: 6757172" data-attributes="member: 27160"><p>I bow to your old-rule-fu! It didn't take long, though, for the plane of "Concordant Opposition" to turn up; it was there by Deities and Demigods (1980).</p><p></p><p></p><p>OK, now I'm going to quibble with your description of the Planescape-style planes here, a bit, because I see it rather differently.</p><p></p><p>You see each outer plane as "proving" that the alignment conviction represented is correct; and I have little doubt that this is what the devotees of that alignment want us to think. But with a little thought I think it's obvious that this is based on an immense assumption - that everyone thinks alike.</p><p></p><p>I first noticed this with Kant's Categorical Imperative. It works fabulously well as long as everyone realises how true it is and follows it as a maxim. But it says precisely nothing about what to do if someone simply chooses to ignore it. (Actually, I have immense regard for the value of Kant for what he does say, but I am under no illusion that what he says is complete in itself).</p><p></p><p>The Outer Planes are similar. What the Seven Heavens "prove" is that everyone feels well off and everything works perfectly <em>if everyone is happy to follow the rules and contribute to the common weal</em>. Well, duh! The "secret" of the Mount Celestia's success is that they don't let "undesirable" elements in! It's only when you see the metaphysical barbed wire and angel-manned machinegun towers keeping the "riff-raff" out that the flaws in its system start to become apparent.</p><p></p><p>Likewise, the Hells "prove" that it only ever pays to try to cheat and scheme and never trust the other guy <em>as long as everyone in the vicinity is out for number one and totally ruthless about it</em>. The outer planes are less "proof" of their alignment views and more self-fulfilling prophecies, as I see them. Each rests upon some very strong, but often unstated, assumptions, in the absence of which things get far more "messy" and unclear. Each works perfectly... as long as the assumptions it's built on are (made to be) true.</p><p></p><p></p><p>And I think that Planescape gets it right here, too. True Neutral is no more infallible or unitary than any of the other alignments - perhaps less so. It is full of folks who, having realised the fallacy of the other, "outer" alignments are looking for something else - an alternative that rests on more plausible assumptions. An alternative that doesn't require that everyone "think alike". Hence the Factions.</p><p></p><p>As a final aside, I think the idea that Chaotic Evil only really works if everyone "thinks alike" (and thus no goodie-bodies gang up to mess with the "natural" order of things) is quite amusing.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Balesir, post: 6757172, member: 27160"] I bow to your old-rule-fu! It didn't take long, though, for the plane of "Concordant Opposition" to turn up; it was there by Deities and Demigods (1980). OK, now I'm going to quibble with your description of the Planescape-style planes here, a bit, because I see it rather differently. You see each outer plane as "proving" that the alignment conviction represented is correct; and I have little doubt that this is what the devotees of that alignment want us to think. But with a little thought I think it's obvious that this is based on an immense assumption - that everyone thinks alike. I first noticed this with Kant's Categorical Imperative. It works fabulously well as long as everyone realises how true it is and follows it as a maxim. But it says precisely nothing about what to do if someone simply chooses to ignore it. (Actually, I have immense regard for the value of Kant for what he does say, but I am under no illusion that what he says is complete in itself). The Outer Planes are similar. What the Seven Heavens "prove" is that everyone feels well off and everything works perfectly [i]if everyone is happy to follow the rules and contribute to the common weal[/i]. Well, duh! The "secret" of the Mount Celestia's success is that they don't let "undesirable" elements in! It's only when you see the metaphysical barbed wire and angel-manned machinegun towers keeping the "riff-raff" out that the flaws in its system start to become apparent. Likewise, the Hells "prove" that it only ever pays to try to cheat and scheme and never trust the other guy [i]as long as everyone in the vicinity is out for number one and totally ruthless about it[/i]. The outer planes are less "proof" of their alignment views and more self-fulfilling prophecies, as I see them. Each rests upon some very strong, but often unstated, assumptions, in the absence of which things get far more "messy" and unclear. Each works perfectly... as long as the assumptions it's built on are (made to be) true. And I think that Planescape gets it right here, too. True Neutral is no more infallible or unitary than any of the other alignments - perhaps less so. It is full of folks who, having realised the fallacy of the other, "outer" alignments are looking for something else - an alternative that rests on more plausible assumptions. An alternative that doesn't require that everyone "think alike". Hence the Factions. As a final aside, I think the idea that Chaotic Evil only really works if everyone "thinks alike" (and thus no goodie-bodies gang up to mess with the "natural" order of things) is quite amusing. [/QUOTE]
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Alignment thread - True Neutrality
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