Reply to thread

Message

<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 6193177" data-attributes="member: 4937">Yep, you've just nailed it.&nbsp; That's what I'm striving for in a game - a bad discourse on ethics given for kindergarteners. I think we can reasonably distinguish between a framework for discussing ethics in the context of heroic fantasy and the actual exploration of ethics themselves.&nbsp;&nbsp; The framework consists of things like asserting that there exist beings that are incarnate evil or incarnate law, a polytheistic pantheon of gods having a certain character, a world with a particular history, and ideologies that exist as palpable and detectable things, and so for.&nbsp;&nbsp; The later - the actual discussion - involves asking, within in this context, how ought one to behave?&nbsp;&nbsp; What is right and what is wrong?&nbsp; Ought one to obey the gods of good unquestioningly?&nbsp;&nbsp; Are those things which are labeled good, truly right?&nbsp;&nbsp; When one adopts a particular alignment, what is one like and what is the range of character possible within this stricture? Is this a proper framework for discussing ethics generally?&nbsp;&nbsp; Perhaps not.&nbsp;&nbsp; I'd certainly not bring up D&amp;D in the context of any one's serious questions about their life.&nbsp; But it seems to me to be a suitable one for discussing ethics in the context of heroic fantasy, which I think though interesting has only some tenuous connection to reality.&nbsp;&nbsp; That tenuous connection is part of the attraction for me.&nbsp; If it was really connected to reality, then the format would be too flippant and too frivolous for exploring anything of such weight and importance.&nbsp; I'm not sure what you mean about that.&nbsp;&nbsp; Ultimately, as DM I'm responsible for being able to translate any given behavior into one of the nine provided alignment buckets.&nbsp;&nbsp; If I can't do that, then I should drop the alignment buckets completely.&nbsp; Many of course do.&nbsp;&nbsp; However, in my personal experience, those that trumpet how far they've gotten past kindergarten level discourse are seldom or well never as deep and thoughtful on this issue as all that.&nbsp; Those groups that drop the bad framework in favor of no framework, seldom to me turn out to be actually interested in asking any questions at all.All out on the table and honest, 100% of the time I've seen an alignment framework dropped from a game, one or both of the following was true:a) They ran evil PC's exclusively or almost exclusively.b) They preferred to use the PC as a gaming piece rather than treating it as an&nbsp; imagined real life flesh and blood person.It's left me with a great distaste for dropping alignment systems and calling your game 'grown-up', 'mature', etc.&nbsp;&nbsp; I think I'll take being judged as kindergarten stuff.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 6193177, member: 4937"] Yep, you've just nailed it. That's what I'm striving for in a game - a bad discourse on ethics given for kindergarteners. I think we can reasonably distinguish between a framework for discussing ethics in the context of heroic fantasy and the actual exploration of ethics themselves. The framework consists of things like asserting that there exist beings that are incarnate evil or incarnate law, a polytheistic pantheon of gods having a certain character, a world with a particular history, and ideologies that exist as palpable and detectable things, and so for. The later - the actual discussion - involves asking, within in this context, how ought one to behave? What is right and what is wrong? Ought one to obey the gods of good unquestioningly? Are those things which are labeled good, truly right? When one adopts a particular alignment, what is one like and what is the range of character possible within this stricture? Is this a proper framework for discussing ethics generally? Perhaps not. I'd certainly not bring up D&D in the context of any one's serious questions about their life. But it seems to me to be a suitable one for discussing ethics in the context of heroic fantasy, which I think though interesting has only some tenuous connection to reality. That tenuous connection is part of the attraction for me. If it was really connected to reality, then the format would be too flippant and too frivolous for exploring anything of such weight and importance. I'm not sure what you mean about that. Ultimately, as DM I'm responsible for being able to translate any given behavior into one of the nine provided alignment buckets. If I can't do that, then I should drop the alignment buckets completely. Many of course do. However, in my personal experience, those that trumpet how far they've gotten past kindergarten level discourse are seldom or well never as deep and thoughtful on this issue as all that. Those groups that drop the bad framework in favor of no framework, seldom to me turn out to be actually interested in asking any questions at all. All out on the table and honest, 100% of the time I've seen an alignment framework dropped from a game, one or both of the following was true: a) They ran evil PC's exclusively or almost exclusively. b) They preferred to use the PC as a gaming piece rather than treating it as an imagined real life flesh and blood person. It's left me with a great distaste for dropping alignment systems and calling your game 'grown-up', 'mature', etc. I think I'll take being judged as kindergarten stuff. [/QUOTE]

Verification