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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Crust" data-source="post: 5480778" data-attributes="member: 22330">I appreciate your response, Celebrim, and I know exactly what you mean.  There is definitely a black and white opposition in the D&D world.  The existence of alignment is evidence of this.What I'm suggesting in my own campaign is something I have to handle delicately, because my players would agree with you (not that I disagree with you).  When I take my campaign into Hell (soon), I want the PCs (in particular the paladin and any exalted PCs) to understand that if they start acting like devils or if they endorse such behavior in their companions, they'll suffer the consequences one way or another.  If an exalted PC slays a helpless devil, that PC might develop a taste for killing for the sake of killing.  If an exalted PC tortures a devil for information, that PC might develop a taste for torture, which could carry over to more than just devils.As George Orwell suggests in 1984 , "The object of torture is torture."  My games are heavily influenced by ideas like that.  Whether it's a devil, an orc, or an innocent child, torture is torture, and that behavior poisons the torturer as much as it harms the victim.  I want to convey the idea that PCs could become the thing they most despise if they're not careful.  A truly exalted paladin would probably rather die than decapitate a helpless devil.  Granted, it's a devil, and the Monster Manual is clear on its alignment and behavior, but the paladin has still slain a helpless foe, which is at the very least cowardly and at worst murder.  Even if the paladin spares the devil and is eventually killed by the same devil later on, at least the paladin has retained his soul and can expect paradise in the afterlife.  Of course, the player running the paladin might not like that.  And I'm generous enough to reward players for behaving like, in my opinion, a true paladin.  Who's to say that the slain paladin won't be restored to life by his/her deity simply for behaving in a truly exalted fashion?  That same paladin could be returned to life more powerful than before (as a half-celestial, granted a holy avenger, etc.) with the intention of continuing the righteous battle against evil.  As Gandalf once said, “…do not be so eager to deal out death in judgment.  For even the very wise cannot see all ends.”  That was true in Gollum's case, who was evil to the core and nonredeemable in my opinion.  Bilbo spared Gollum, and many of my players would definitely not have spared Gollum.  Even the paladin in my group might require a raised eyebrow from me in moments like that, as the player will assume that Gollum will do something evil in the future and must be rubbed out just in case (which is evil in my opinion).It's a bit daring, and there might be some grumbles, but that's the price of being a paladin or having exalted feats and/or prestige classes in my campaign.  Some of my players seem to forget that they're exalted and that those benefits are overpowered and must be weighed against strict role-playing.  I have to deal with exactly what you're talking about, Celebrim, and it's hard to juggle.  Alignment has always been hard to juggle for me, and when morals and influences vary at the table, I often wonder how the game would change if I cut out alignment altogether.</blockquote>

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